VFR student in the clouds :)

moxiepilot

moxiepilot

Well-Known Member
I love these slate grey days with a temp/dew spread of 2 and a cig. reported at 4000. I love the students who start climb out and say, "Uh, there's a cloud ahead," and we're climbing through 500 AGL.

Always fun to observe how they react when they continue to climb to TPA and are MVFR/nearly IFR due to obscuration (VV isn't reported on our AWOS-3)

He did pretty good and got a little disoriented too, but overall great way to learn.

Do you guys let your students fly into thin clouds when they make a mistake as a learning experience for them, or do you not?
 
I voted yes before I read your post... thought you meant on an IFR clearance.

Wouldn't want to bust cloud clearance rules though.

Thin wispy clouds you can see through? That's a different story. If you can see through to the other side, is it really a cloud?
 
I noticed that in the question it contemplated a normal VFR lesson. If the cloud can't be completely seen through (for the applicable VFR visibility), it's not "thin" and I have this funny rule about intentionally busting the regs, especially with a student on board.
 
Well if they were in G airspace they didn't bust anything no matter how dense the cloud was. :D
 
where this stemmed from was from a students misunderstanding of the weather. we planned a traffic pattern lesson, with the clouds reported at 4000 and visibility of 3 sm in class G.

with the high humidity and warming I expected to encounter thin clouds at about 1000', the student didn't expect that. So, on takeoff he noticed that there were thin clouds, basically high fog which he hadn't planned on.

not much we really could do anyway except skirt the formed clouds and land. we never busted a reg, but I'd say vis. dropped to about a mile which is when he got disoriented, turning the legs of the pattern.

I was just curious if anyone would allow the chain of events to continue to see how the student reacts as things get progressively worse.

In my case, as the visibility dropped, I took the flight controls remained 1/COC, and gave them back on base when he was situated. I believe it made a impression on the student in a number of ways:

3sm dropping to 1 sm, although legal is no fun for a low time pilot.
pay attention to the temp/dew point spread
don't panic
and don't do it again
 
The obvious answer is yes.

With a couple items to consider.

1. Never break Regs, and make sure you file and get clearance.

2. I think it is a great idea for a student to experience this, there may come a day when things close in on them in the future, and having some experience to fall back on would be a good thing.

3. Depends on the definition of low-time. I wouldn't do it with a 10-20 hr student, but for a student that is ready for a checkride I think it would be valuable experience.
 
Ralgha said:
Well if they were in G airspace they didn't bust anything no matter how dense the cloud was. :D
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That's not true. There are VFR could clearance requirements for class G. Can't go into the cloud unless you are instrument rated and current. If you are with them it is okay, but they must understand that until they have an instrument rating they cannot go into any cloud anywhere while acting as PIC. Also, they should be taught that just becasue it is legal does not mean it is safe. If there are any other nutjobs flying around in that same cloud, neither of you being controlled by ATC.....hope you have your will made out.
 
Hey man, I really doubt you were in class G in the pattern at Wings. On the surface, yes....in the pattern, no. Better take a closer look at the sectional.
 
flyguy said:
If you are with them it is okay, but they must understand that until they have an instrument rating they cannot go into any cloud anywhere while acting as PIC.
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Dont instrument students log PIC for IMC conditions w/ their instructor?

(I know what you are saying though :) )
 
meritflyer said:
Dont instrument students log PIC for IMC conditions w/ their instructor?

(I know what you are saying though :) )
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They log PIC but they cannot act as PIC. And actually, even if they are in VMC but are on an IFR fligh plan, they can only log PIC, not act as PIC.
 
How did this thread turn into a logging discussion? Questions. Should you take a student Pilot into IMC to see what its like? Yes or No and Why.

He did not say an Instrument Student he said a VFR student. Maybe one that will not continue beyond his PPL. My opinion stands, yes take them up there, just make sure its legal.
 
meritflyer said:
Huh.. didnt really know there was a difference. If you cant act as PIC, what is the point in logging PIC?
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Cue Midlifeflyer in 3...2....1...:)

By the way, Midlife, when are you going to burn CD's of all of your FAQ's? I bet you could make a small fortune with all of the info you have compiled. By the way, I love reading all of your posts when it comes to the regs and interpretations, etc.
 
desertdog71 said:
How did this thread turn into a logging discussion? Questions. Should you take a student Pilot into IMC to see what its like? Yes or No and Why.

He did not say an Instrument Student he said a VFR student. Maybe one that will not continue beyond his PPL. My opinion stands, yes take them up there, just make sure its legal.
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Yes, take a stud up into clouds so they know what it's like. Get a pop-up IFR, or whatever is necessary to keep you legal, but show them how bad it can get.
 
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