VFR OTP question

RPJ

RPJ

Well-Known Member
Scenario;

I file a IFR flight plan and I put OTP in the remarks section, after clearing cloud tops I inform ATC that I am on top and would like to cancel IFR and revert to VFR flight following to my destination. Would the controller immediately cancel my IFR plan or would I have to wait until the controller is ready to cancel? Should I put that I want VFR flight following after OTP in the remarks section or should I just wait until I am in the air on top to ask for flight following?


-Thanks
RJ
 
In the scenario you describe, I would imagine that the controller would immediately accept your IFR cancellation as soon as you stated your desire to do so.

Personally, I found that items in the remarks section were often useful and, if I was not able to clearly and completely understand your intentions by reading them, I could always ask you for clarification. I am in favor of including remarks as you described.
 
Better routing is a possibility since you could go direct. I've used it from time to time in order to get above the overcast to practice manuevers and such. You can usually request a block altitude within a radius of some fix if the controllers and airspace isn't particularly busy. Over The Top operations are prohibited in class A.

The AIM says the pilot must request it on the IFR flight plan, but I've done it enroute before. Was I out of line? ATC has never had a problem with it.

Example: I filed IFR to an intersection then to an airport. Once on top enroute to the intersection, I reported VMC and aske for VFR On Top for manuevering and asked them to clear me a one thousand foot block within 5nm of the intersection for 15 minutes. No problem. Once done I asked for vectors for the ILS at my destination. The only thing I had put in my remarks section was "manuevering over TEYUS". Did I do this correctly???
 
"I inform ATC that I am on top and would like to cancel IFR"

If you ask to cancel IFR, you'll get your IFR canceled.

If you want flight following next, which is a great idea, just say "561DE is in VFR conditions, can maintain VFR, would like to cancel IFR and get flight following"

Remember, VFR on top is not the same as flight following. With an OTP clearance, you're still on an IFR flight plan. You, and ATC, just get to waive a few rules, which can make things easier for both the pilot and the controller.

One trick with OTP used to be flying over the Cascade mountains, SEA to EAT, on V120. The MEA is 12,000. Takes a while to get up there in a 172. Asking for 9.5K or 10.5K, on top conditions, will save you the climb. Now, I believe it's technically wrong to do OTP and "bust" the MEA, but I've had ATC do it on this route before. They want to get on the tape "verify you have the terrain in sight", but once they do, that gives them the warm fuzzies and the seem to not care.
 
Instead of putting it in the remarks, you can put OTP or OTP/65 or other appropriate VFR-on-top altitude in the altitude box of your flight plan. You'll get your normal IFR clearance and ATC will ask you to report on top. Once there you can either proceed VFR-on-top or cancel and ask for flight following.
 
I realize that this is an old topic, but I just stumbled upon it and decided some clarification is needed.

VFR on top is an IFR clearance, when you report VFR on top it in no way cancels your IFR flight plan.
If you report VFR on top the controller will respond with 'Maintain VFR on top'
At that time you are still IFR however you now have less restrictions, mainly you can use VFR altitudes below the MEAs.
Once you are assigned VFR on top, you are not on your own navigation, you must still follow your flight plan, if you now want direct, ask for it, it will almost always be given.
It is an advantage to the controller if you are able to do this as it can save everyone time and thus make it an advantage to pilots also.
 
you are correct on all points but one, on VFR on Top you must maintain an altitude AT or ABOVE the MEA, MIA, MVA, ORCA even if your in VMC conditions.
 
queeno said:
you are correct on all points but one, on VFR on Top you must maintain an altitude AT or ABOVE the MEA, MIA, MVA, ORCA even if your in VMC conditions.
Click to expand...
Correct, but I've never seen them not let you cruise below it.
 
ATCbuddy said:
I realize that this is an old topic, but I just stumbled upon it and decided some clarification is needed.

VFR on top is an IFR clearance, when you report VFR on top it in no way cancels your IFR flight plan.
If you report VFR on top the controller will respond with 'Maintain VFR on top'
At that time you are still IFR however you now have less restrictions, mainly you can use VFR altitudes below the MEAs.
Once you are assigned VFR on top, you are not on your own navigation, you must still follow your flight plan, if you now want direct, ask for it, it will almost always be given.
It is an advantage to the controller if you are able to do this as it can save everyone time and thus make it an advantage to pilots also.
Click to expand...

Hey JC, just found the forum and this is my first post. I feel like further clarification is needed here as OTP is generally misused and misunderstood. It's more for the benefit of anyone searching for OTP as a student pilot than to correct you as the idea is still the same.

OTP is an IFR clearance until reaching VFR on top. At that stage when you report reaching VFR you're considered VFR as far as altitudes, cloud clearance, separation, etc. You're also considered to be on an IFR flight plan which means that you do have to follow the flight plan and get clearance for deviation just like you would on an IFR clearance which is mainly for Search and Rescue purposes. Once you want to go into clouds you have to ask to resume your IFR clearance and will be issued an altitude/routing as necessary to resume IFR flight.

Cancelling the IFR as the OP asked does in fact cancel the IFR clearance and flight plan but since it's so misused I will always verify the intentions of a pilot. As a pilot you should be clear in your request or you could end up with a IFR flight plan that's never cancelled and search and rescue procedures executed or the inverse and need to resume IFR conditions and be severely delayed since no flight plan is on file. In the case that you're planning on cancelling IFR in the air it might eliminate any confusion all together for you to file an IFR to VFR flight plan. The remarks could be used here if you want to continue to receive flight following afterwards. For instance, you file ABC..FIXED..CBA with an altitude of 070 remarks could be IFR to FIXED VFR to CBA in which case you will receive a clearance to FIXED at 070 instead of the destination. In either case, remarks are not used for flight plan information and your intentions still need to be made known when asking for a clearance.

FARs will regulate whether or not you can dip below the MEA, MIA, or MOCA but as far as I know there are no rules prohibiting such action (which means I'm not going to care as a controller if you go below your IFR altitude since I'm not FSDO nor any other policing agency.) IF, however, you do go below your regulated IFR altitude and the FARs explicitly prohibit it then you have to answer for your actions in the event that you get caught, like anything else. If I'm a controller and you break a pilot rule, that doesn't effect me, I don't care. You can, for instance, land below minimums and who am I to say that you landed below minimums? Controllers don't regulate or police such rules. As opposed to crossing a hold short line or busting your altitude... Controllers police that because it's operationally important and as such we need you to do what we ask or tell us that you can't. Hopefully this is helpful to someone out there and is clear as mud.
 
as for altitudes below MIA MOCA etc here is a rule its FAR 91.177, VFR on top is still a IFR clrn.
 
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