Va - Maneuvering Speed- What's It Mean to You

Firebird2XC

Well-Known Member
Was pondering all things V speeds sitting here at the gate waiting to start my commute.

Va- what does it all really mean?

(I know what I think it is, I'm curious how everybody else sees it.)
 
a speed at which you can make abrupt and full deflection of a flight control without structural damage?
 
"What Va means to me" seems like some kind of metaphysical question.

If you were to do an accelerated stall above that speed the plane would be damaged.

It's also the speed you can turn the tightest at. Faster and your turn radius is larger slower and you can't pull as many Gs because you would stall.
 
I couldn't find the old JC thread about Va and other design maneuvering speeds.

Def 1:
Va: The maximum speed at which you can make full or abrupt control maneuvers and stall, before causing structural damage.

Def 2:
Va: The maximum speed at which you can make full or abrupt control maneuvers and stall, before causing control surface damage.

The JC thread talked about those other speeds and I want to say it was determined that Va only meant control surface damage, but I wouldn't put money on it right now.
 
I would put money on structural damage.
If an aileron falls off, will you be debating the semantics on the way down?
If you ever went to engineering school, and had to generate vn diagrams, you would answer structural too.
 
It's a speed designated by the FAA for each specific model of airplane to allow DPE to fail students on checkrides if the student doesn't bring the airplane to that speed before attempting a specified maneuver. Well, that's what it means to my students.....
 
Va- what does it all really mean?

As far as the FAA (Parts 23, 25) is concerned, it's a speed at which you can make full or abrupt control movements and the control surfaces will remain attached to the airplane. Nothing else. There is no requirement that the resulting load factor will remain below the load factor limit.
 
My definition has nothing to do with abrupt movements. I have always defined Va as the highest speed where the wings will stall before they break. I can explain it using the Vg diagram...or I used to be able to.
 
As far as the FAA (Parts 23, 25) is concerned, it's a speed at which you can make full or abrupt control movements and the control surfaces will remain attached to the airplane. Nothing else. There is no requirement that the resulting load factor will remain below the load factor limit.

Interesting, didn't know that. Was always under the assumption that it was the speed in which the wing can only create enough of lift to support the maximum allowable load factor.
 
Interesting, didn't know that. Was always under the assumption that it was the speed in which the wing can only create enough of lift to support the maximum allowable load factor.

That's the definition of "maneuvering speed" you find in aerodynamics books, and probably the original intent of Va, but the FAA now does not include that requirement in the regulations. They provide a different V speed for that purpose: Vo:
§ 23.1507 Operating maneuvering speed.
The maximum operating maneuvering speed, VO, must be established as an operating limitation. VO is a selected speed that is not greater than VS times the square root of n established in § 23.335(c).

Va, on the other hand, is defined thusly:

(c) Design maneuvering speed VA. For VA, the following applies:
(1) VA may not be less than VS * sqrt(n) where -
(i) VS is a computed stalling speed with flaps retracted at the design weight, normally based on the maximum airplane normal force coefficients, C(na); and
(ii) n is the limit maneuvering load factor used in design
Notice the difference? Vo can't be greater than the speed that will prevent the load factor from being exceeded, but Va can't be less than that speed, meaning that it can be greater, much greater. If it is, then the load factor limit can be easily exceeded. The only thing that restricts manufacturers from actually creating these high Va speeds is that the control surfaces must be certified to handle the flight loads created from full or abrupt deflections at these speeds.

In practice, many manufacturers will establish Va = Vo, so the distinction is moot, but not all manufacturers will do that.
 
As far as the FAA (Parts 23, 25) is concerned, it's a speed at which you can make full or abrupt control movements and the control surfaces will remain attached to the airplane. Nothing else. There is no requirement that the resulting load factor will remain below the load factor limit.


Wasn't AA flight 587 below Va when it crashed?
 
That's the definition of "maneuvering speed" you find in aerodynamics books, and probably the original intent of Va, but the FAA now does not include that requirement in the regulations. They provide a different V speed for that purpose: Vo:
§ 23.1507 Operating maneuvering speed.
The maximum operating maneuvering speed, VO, must be established as an operating limitation. VO is a selected speed that is not greater than VS times the square root of n established in § 23.335(c).

Va, on the other hand, is defined thusly:
(c) Design maneuvering speed VA. For VA, the following applies:
(1) VA may not be less than VS * sqrt(n) where -
(i) VS is a computed stalling speed with flaps retracted at the design weight, normally based on the maximum airplane normal force coefficients, C(na); and
(ii) n is the limit maneuvering load factor used in design
Notice the difference? Vo can't be greater than the speed that will prevent the load factor from being exceeded, but Va can't be less than that speed, meaning that it can be greater, much greater. If it is, then the load factor limit can be easily exceeded. The only thing that restricts manufacturers from actually creating these high Va speeds is that the control surfaces must be certified to handle the flight loads created from full or abrupt deflections at these speeds.

In practice, many manufacturers will establish Va = Vo, so the distinction is moot, but not all manufacturers will do that.

Extremely informative. Appreciate the info. :beer:
 
Va, to me, is the spped at which, when deflecting the flight controls abruptly - will not spill the beer from within my sippy cup.











does this really need a sarcasm tag?
 
Yes, but they don't test the rudder with full side to side deflections, so Va offered no protection.
Right. The way I understand it, if the crew had abruptly gone full rudder, then released to neutral (as is assumed [I guess]) when calculating Va, they wouldn't have broken the vertical stab. However, the increased force on the vertical stab caused by see-sawing the rudder all the way over to the other side overloaded the structure.

Also, to me...Va is:
The speed at which the aircraft's wing, when operated at the critical angle of attack, is able to produce a load factor on the aircraft equal to the aircraft's certificated limit load factor. Therefore, when operating at Va, stall and limit load factor would be reached at the same AOA.
 
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