VA Approved

CommPilot76

New Member
Can some one tell me if ATP is VA Approved or Not, I see in the latest aopa flight training magazine that they advertise being approved.
 

surreal1221

Well-Known Member
They are not. None of their courses are conducted under part 141, and as such, none of their courses even qualify for VA approval.

They sure do do a great job trying to make it look as if they do provide VA approved flight training though.

http://www.atpflightschool.com/va/index.html

Make sure you read that extremely closely. I've been contacted by a handful of people asking me what I think about that portion of their website. Overall, these fellow service members are under the impression that they can goto ATP, use their GI Bill benefits to pay for 60% of their flight training costs, etc. Unfortunately, that's not true. The website has lead them to think that they can, but they sure do do a good job covering their rears by saying that they do not provide VA approved Flight training.

You can, use your GI Bill benefits to pay for exam fees (writtens, as well as checkride costs). But, that doesn't take VA Approval.

If they are blatantly saying they are VA Approved in AOPA there are going to be some very happy people at a certain VA office in the Southeast who has been keeping an eye on AllATPs advertising towards Veterans. Unfortunately, I don't get any of AOPA's periodicals, but if you wouldn't mind snapping a picture of it and sending it to me in a PM that'd be great, referencing what edition, month, and page that this advert is on.

If you're looking for VA approved schools, send me a PM, I know of a few.
 

IslandFlyer

Well-Known Member
If you take a snapshot of that article, would you mind posting here on the site for everyone to take a look at?

Yet another reason not to attend the overpriced zero to hero flight school.
 

Captain_Bob

Well-Known Member
They are not. None of their courses are conducted under part 141, and as such, none of their courses even qualify for VA approval.

They sure do do a great job trying to make it look as if they do provide VA approved flight training though.

http://www.atpflightschool.com/va/index.html

Make sure you read that extremely closely.
Surreal,

At your suggesstion... I read it extremely closely... it wasn't hard to get past the first paragraph:

ATP does not offer any flight training programs approved by the US Department of Veterans Affairs for education expenses covered under the Montgomery GI Bill.

...flight training included in ATP’s Airline Career Pilot Program is not approved for VA reimbursement,
I don't really see how they are trying to convince anyone that they are. Nor do I see any potential deception in that page and those statements.

It looks like a very straightforward response to me. How is it exactly that you think the website is leading them to think otherwise?

Bob
 

IslandFlyer

Well-Known Member
I think the OP was saying that he saw ATP advertising in an AOPA magazine that they are VA approved, not on their website.

It is clear from their website they are not VA approved.

Hopefully the OP posts a picture of the ad in the magazine of ATP claiming to be VA approved.
 

roconnell

New Member
To make things more confusing on the ATP site under GI Bill it is posted that the VA has approved two commerical single engine courses at Panama City flight training center. Also if you go to the VA website and search for approved flight programs it shows ATP in Panama City being VA approved as of Aug 15 2008. Also on ATP's website it states they are trying to get their Airline Career Pilot Program approved by Jan 2009. It is about time, I have contacted them numerous times telling telling them they would get vets like myself if they were VA appoved.
 

surreal1221

Well-Known Member
Well, if they are offering some problems with VA approval - legitimately great. But they should be extremely clear about where and what programs are approved.

Nevertheless, why a wise vet would go off and spend 55k+ at any flight school right now is beyond me, it can easily be done on less than 40k, if not even 30k, with 60% of that being covered by VA benefits. Of course, that might mean moving. . .but . . .not like any veteran isn't use to moving around for career progression.

Captain_Bob,

I try to be an advocate for my fellow service members as I've gone through the VA process, not only for my under graduate degree, but also for my flight training (Instrument through Commercial ME).

When I get 5 phone calls in a 2 month period regarding ATP's VA approval (or lack thereof) it starts to send signals of skepticism straight to my brain. Especially considering how crystal clear their website is, yet these individuals are some how getting conflicting information.

So yes, while ATP is covering their ass, they are still leaving a lot of service members out in the dust with this impression that they can use their VA educational benefits for ALL associated costs at ATP, which is not the case. So, what do I do - I steer them towards verified locations that have VA approved courses. Crystal clear.

Further

It is amazingly interesting to see how they have cleaned up their GI Bill and Benefits section of their website to get rid of the contradictory text - We're VA approved. . .No we're Not. . .Since we're not Part 141. . .But you can use VA Benefits to pay for Exam fees (duh - no one has to be Approved for such).

I can't accept responsibility, but I have been notified by personnel indicating that certain VA officials in the Southeast were made aware of ATP's marketing decisions, and it appears ATP has taken steps to minimize any further confusion. Wise move.

I'd like to give ATP the benefit of the doubt, but honestly - why any service member would want to go somewhere that was making an attempt to mislead Veterans is beyond me.
 

surreal1221

Well-Known Member
Which even makes their statements more amazing.

The VA will only pay for Post-Private training. . .I yi yi. . .whatever. Those who want to go there will go there anyway, but I just hope some of the wiser service members get some honest guidance before taking their hard earned cash there, and thinking they'll see 60% of it again, only to be left in the dust because they didn't read the fine print. Much like getting a bad mortgage, but not finding out about it until 5 years later.

Whatever.
 

SpiraMirabilis

Possible Subversive
Wow, that was quick. They changed that page pretty fast. Good for them. Bad for them that they had it up in the first place though.
 

Counselor

Well-Known Member
Look at their website this morning. It unequivocally states that veterans can use the GI Bill for the full Airline Career Pilot Program beginning in January of 2009, albeit a "new" Part 141 program?

"In January 2009, veterans will have access to a new FAR Part 141 and VA-approved Airline Career Pilot Program."
 

v1valarob

Well-Known Member
Look at their website this morning. It unequivocally states that veterans can use the GI Bill for the full Airline Career Pilot Program beginning in January of 2009, albeit a "new" Part 141 program?

"In January 2009, veterans will have access to a new FAR Part 141 and VA-approved Airline Career Pilot Program."
There is no way that it will be a 90 day program. You cant meet 141 requirements in 90 days.
 

SoCalAprch

Well-Known Member
Look at their website this morning. It unequivocally states that veterans can use the GI Bill for the full Airline Career Pilot Program beginning in January of 2009, albeit a "new" Part 141 program?

"In January 2009, veterans will have access to a new FAR Part 141 and VA-approved Airline Career Pilot Program."
Just call them and ask if they accept VA benefits.

On a side note the video in the upper right with the girl in it was starting right as I was finishing in Riverside. She went to XJET in April and I think she got furloughed.:(
 

v1valarob

Well-Known Member
Just call them and ask if they accept VA benefits.

On a side note the video in the upper right with the girl in it was starting right as I was finishing in Riverside. She went to XJET in April and I think she got furloughed.:(
Yup, thats Joiwind. She instructed in RAL while I was there, I think she actually went to XJT around about August of 2007. So she is definitely in the group that was just furloughed. There where quite a few RAL instructors who went to XJT during that time period.
 

Counselor

Well-Known Member
Website says Part 141-Va approved program for full ACPP starts January 2009. Anyone know any details or locations?
 

Counselor

Well-Known Member
Just saw on the ATP website that ATP anticipates VA-approved ACPP at Dallas, Jacksonville, and Atlanta in early 2009. What are you guys hearing about this program?
 

moleman

New Member
Which even makes their statements more amazing.

The VA will only pay for Post-Private training. . .I yi yi. . .whatever. Those who want to go there will go there anyway, but I just hope some of the wiser service members get some honest guidance before taking their hard earned cash there, and thinking they'll see 60% of it again, only to be left in the dust because they didn't read the fine print. Much like getting a bad mortgage, but not finding out about it until 5 years later.

Whatever.
A vet can't go to any school and see 60% of their hard earned cash again.

Most multi add on programs aint 141 most cfi programs ain't either. But you're gonna need those ratings and you'll pay full price for them at most of the schools that advertise themselves as "VA approved". Think the school you went to/work for is like that.

That was the point of the article on ATP's website. I say good for them for having it up there. It helped educate folks that when a school says it is "VA approved" you ain't gettin 60% off the total cost. So do your homework and compare true out of pocket expenses.

In fact good luck figuring out what the total cost is for any school other than ATP.
 
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