Pilot Fighter
Well-Known Member
With the possibility they had two or more airports in sight, I don't know. Wondering if they had good controllability and a marginal idea turned into a bad idea when something else went wrong.
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USN T-6B crash, Alabama
- Thread starter MikeD
- Start date
With the possibility they had two or more airports in sight, I don't know. Wondering if they had good controllability and a marginal idea turned into a bad idea when something else went wrong.
Any number of factors could be in play for why an aircrew or single seat pilot doesn’t bail out when the means is present to. Could be a squadron/training wing climate issue, could be holdover from the T-34 days (although the deceased SNA wouldn’t be old enough rank-wise to know this culture, and very likely the IP neither), to possibly being in the middle of of trying to maneuver the plane to an uninhabited area and either not being able to for some reason with the aircraft or simply running out of altitude. Any number of factors could’ve been in play. Of course, no aviator wants to happen to them, what happened to the Miramar -101 Hornet that went into the house near Miramar following an EP brought all the way back to Miramar vice diverting to North Island. @///AMG could speak to the details of that one and the decisions that were made that day, better than anyone here.
///AMG
Well-Known Member
I think whatever the result of the SIR/investigation ends up being, these words are still apt (gender notwithstanding or relevant):
Whenever we talk about a pilot who has been killed in a flying accident, we should all keep one thing in mind. He called upon the sum of all his knowledge and made a judgment. He believed it so strongly that he knowingly bet his life on it. That his judgment was faulty was a tragedy, not stupidity. Every inspector, supervisor, and contemporary who ever spoke to him had an opportunity to influence his judgment, so a little of all of us goes with every pilot we lose.
And that isn't to say they did anything wrong, or had poor judgement. I know nearly nothing about this one, wouldn't pretend to. I've known or known of folks who have passed in ways that "but by the grace of God" I haven't (UK/Lakenheath Hornet mishap a few years ago is a perfect example). But those words still bear repeating when we lose someone.
Whenever we talk about a pilot who has been killed in a flying accident, we should all keep one thing in mind. He called upon the sum of all his knowledge and made a judgment. He believed it so strongly that he knowingly bet his life on it. That his judgment was faulty was a tragedy, not stupidity. Every inspector, supervisor, and contemporary who ever spoke to him had an opportunity to influence his judgment, so a little of all of us goes with every pilot we lose.
And that isn't to say they did anything wrong, or had poor judgement. I know nearly nothing about this one, wouldn't pretend to. I've known or known of folks who have passed in ways that "but by the grace of God" I haven't (UK/Lakenheath Hornet mishap a few years ago is a perfect example). But those words still bear repeating when we lose someone.
FlyingAccountant
Well-Known Member
Could they have been in fear of damaging their careers?
///AMG
Well-Known Member
That thought would never cross my mind in such a scenario. Aviators quite commonly go on to fly another day after a mishap/ejection. I actually don't know anyone who has ejected that wasn't quickly back on flight status. That isn't to say that I don't know people who were removed for cause, but I can't think of any that were related to a mishap.
Murdoughnut
Well sized member
A better speculative guess is that the IP had control of the aircraft and decided to make a glide, with the intention of punching out if it became clear that the glide would not make it back to the airport. Once realizing they weren't going to make it, the IP became concerned about the aircraft landing in the residential neighborhood in front of them, and became focused on maneuvering the aircraft to avoid collateral damage - and remained focused on that all the way down. New student was waiting on the eject call and didn't take the initiative to punch herself out when they got in too deep.
No evidence to support this, just seemed like a better guess.
DeltaAlphaNovember
Well-Known Member
Can someone educate me on the ejection seat? Mostly what kind of parameters must be met to safely eject. It probably goes without saying, but speed and altitude must be two of the key players, correct?
Lawman
Well-Known Member
“Zero/Zero” is more a sales pitch than a reality of capability. Like saying “all weather.”
The more level profile within a specific speed envelope and at altitude for the chute to have greater effect on velocity the greater chances of a good outcome (crew alive, minimal injuries). For example there have for example only been a handful of survived supersonic ejections usually with a lot of trauma. That’s partially because most planes don’t operate in that regime very often and also because the human body was never made to be going 700 mph.
Somebody with time in the T-6 can probably state the exact optimal range for altitude/speed/etc but the old standard of ejections are not the get out of jail free card that the movies play them out to be.
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DeltaAlphaNovember
Well-Known Member
I appreciate the reply. I had an uncle that had to eject years back. It was a Navy jet he was in. Not sure what jet though. Some years later he was involved in a night time mid air collision with another F-14 out at sea and did not survive.
///AMG
Well-Known Member
Like Lawman said, the seat can't overcome physics/momentum. The main scenarios where people get killed during ejection occur, as one might imagine, at low altitude. Normally either too low and too sideways/inverted, or too low with an excessive descent rate. Otherwise, modern generation seats are generally quite reliable.
FlyingAccountant
Well-Known Member
I'm not trying to guess, I'm just asking questions of the far more knowledgeable people on the subject here than myself.