USMC tanks

[Lawman]

China is increasing its influence into Pacific island countries.
This is so they can station long range anti ship missiles and control the west Pacific down to, and including Australia and New Zealand.
The Marines found that heavy tanks and few large ships would be ineffective for future conflicts with China.
New acquisitions include small vehicles and smaller landing ships (Light Amphibious Warships).
It's "island hopping" all over again, this time with hyper sonic anti ship missiles.

But that turns the Marines into a far more niche force and screws a whole lot of doctrine in the process.

Yes returning to the amphibious routes is paramount after the two decades in the desert we all just went through, but reshaping it entirely to that fight is the Marines saying “I’m good for the South Pacific, and the Caribbean... Don’t call me for Africa/Southcom/etc.”

The Marine Air Ground Task Force (MAGTF) filled a very critical gap in reaction time between the light global reaction force and the heavier hitting power that would take weeks if not months to assemble into a region. They did that because they were for lack of a better term a small self contained military that had just enough of all the flavors to make a wedge in the door and hold open the gap while something like I Corps began the slow movement to mobilize.

Optimizing the Marines into the Niche they are moving toward is going to mean a whole lot of everything else has to change in respect to rapid force projection. Those light elements will have to be much heavier and will slow the reaction, likewise the heavy stuff will have to do without limiting its hitting power and sustainment ability. And there will be a much larger need for a way to move that stuff which isn’t organic meaning beefing up Airlift and Sealift in ways we don’t currently have.




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[CaptainYoda]

But that turns the Marines into a far more niche force and screws a whole lot of doctrine in the process.

Change is not easy.
But if anyone can improvise, it's the Marines.

 

[Roger Roger]

China is increasing its influence into Pacific island countries.
This is so they can station long range anti ship missiles and control the west Pacific down to, and including Australia and New Zealand.

And we paid for it.

 

[Lawman]

Change is not easy.
But if anyone can improvise, it's the Marines.

It’s not the Marines adapting I’m worried about.

It’s when the Army and the other service chiefs go to the Hill to explain why they need this new capability to fill this new Gap. That’s going to go over like a turd in the punch bowl, especially when asked where did this gap come from.

Nobody is going to protest the Marines divesting what is heavier more expensive equipment from their budget. There will be hell to pay when the Army starts trying to reform across the 18th and I Corps to make some sort of moderate reaction package. Let alone get the CONPLAN approved when they start briefing which highways/railways/ports we will have to federalize to meet the expected reaction time.


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[woodreau]

It’s not just the military piece, the whole thing hinges on the diplomacy aspect, as well. Switching to strictly military might to execute our nations interests while shunning everyone else to do it alone makes it much more expensive endeavor. Our government is currently dismantling everything it’s worked for since the end of world war 2 ceding control and creating a power vacuum that Russia and China are all too willing to step in and assume leadership in world affairs.

when the warning order came in to the expeditionary strike group to do what ever mission that got tasked, the crisis action team assembled in the war room did their c2p2 and within 2 hours of the warning order there were 3 courses of action presented, one selected for execution and planning, and everything done and everyone was waiting for the execute order to cross the LOD within 6 hours of receipt of the warning order. planning and execution always involved working with the state department and other foreign nations (16 years ago anyways) to get resources for whatever we needed to accomplish mission.

 

[MikeD]

It’s not just the military piece, the whole thing hinges on the diplomacy aspect, as well. Switching to strictly military might to execute our nations interests while shunning everyone else to do it alone makes it much more expensive endeavor. Our government is currently dismantling everything it’s worked for since the end of world war 2 ceding control and creating a power vacuum that Russia and China are all too willing to step in and assume leadership in world affairs.

when the warning order came in to the expeditionary strike group to do what ever mission that got tasked, the crisis action team assembled in the war room did their c2p2 and within 2 hours of the warning order there were 3 courses of action presented, one selected for execution and planning, and everything done and everyone was waiting for the execute order to cross the LOD within 6 hours of receipt of the warning order. planning and execution always involved working with the state department and other foreign nations (16 years ago anyways) to get resources for whatever we needed to accomplish mission.

it does come down to time and place. Sometimes, we can get help via State from other nations as it comes to our military interests.

Other times, requests for assistance, even passive assistance from our own allies, we’re given a talk to the hand, and we are forced to go it alone anyway. Ala the 1986 Libya strike and France.

There’s a time and place for going things alone, just as there’s the same for having allies in our corner who want to be there.

 

[ryan1234]

But that turns the Marines into a far more niche force and screws a whole lot of doctrine in the process.

Yes returning to the amphibious routes is paramount after the two decades in the desert we all just went through, but reshaping it entirely to that fight is the Marines saying “I’m good for the South Pacific, and the Caribbean... Don’t call me for Africa/Southcom/etc.”

The Marine Air Ground Task Force (MAGTF) filled a very critical gap in reaction time between the light global reaction force and the heavier hitting power that would take weeks if not months to assemble into a region. They did that because they were for lack of a better term a small self contained military that had just enough of all the flavors to make a wedge in the door and hold open the gap while something like I Corps began the slow movement to mobilize.

Optimizing the Marines into the Niche they are moving toward is going to mean a whole lot of everything else has to change in respect to rapid force projection. Those light elements will have to be much heavier and will slow the reaction, likewise the heavy stuff will have to do without limiting its hitting power and sustainment ability. And there will be a much larger need for a way to move that stuff which isn’t organic meaning beefing up Airlift and Sealift in ways we don’t currently have.




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I think the Marine 'redesign' is much more reflective of how *successful* force is utilized in modern conflict (i.e. much more of a diplomatically shaping force). Additionally, the redesign will, hopefully, come with a much more improved, agile logistics capability - or at least trend in that direction.

While there may be some scenario where it is possible, I can't see us, realistically, rolling back the Chinese mainland IADS and occupying the country - regardless of if we have the capability to do it. Nuclear trip lines and all. As the last 60 years have shown us, there are much smarter ways to manage conflict and even use it your advantage. In the Marine's case, just like the cavalry giving up their horses, it's time to prevent nostalgia from getting in the way of operational and tactical evolution.