I am considering becoming a pilot, but I know right now in the US the airline industry is not the best place to be. I was wondering if I obtained a US Pilot Certification from a flight school, like the Delta Connection Academy or Embry-Riddle, would I be able to transfer that cert. and apply to an air carrier overseas? I heard that for the next 20 yrs, the demand for pilots in Asian countries will be high.
Using US Pilot Certification overseas
- Thread starter bahrain
- Start date
typhoonpilot
Well-Known Member
Any company that accepts ICAO ( FAA=ICAO) certificates will accept a U.S. certificate. It is only companies that specifically require JAA certifcates that will not accept the FAA certificate. Typically the ones that require JAA also require the right to live and work in the European Union. So if you don't have the right to live and work in the European Union it's kind of pointless to get a JAA certificate.
That all said, Canadian, Australian, and New Zealand certificates are looked upon more favorably than an FAA certificate.
Your FAA certificate doesn't really get transferred, it is used as the basis for issuing a new license for the country you will work in. Often times you will still need to take at least one written exam and at least one flight check. Foreign airlines typically take care of the bureacratic side of doing that on your behalf. Some, like Japan, make you go through a 7 month conversion process.
Typhoonpilot
granlistillo
Well-Known Member
Typhoonpilot
That seems to be so. Why is that the case?
Also why do some of these companies require a JAA? Are they leasing a European registered aircraft with the crew being JAAland based?
Thanks
typhoonpilot
Well-Known Member
JAA certificates are certainly the norm in Europe. It is seen as a requirement outside of Europe on occasion. It could be the personal preference of the person who decides the requirements or it could be driven by the regulator of that specific country.
The preference for Canadian, Australian, and Kiwi licenses seems to stem from the perception that the FAA system is weak in theoretical knowledge. The counter argument to that is that those systems are weak in practical knowledge and hand flying skills. Again, it usually boils down to who is deciding the requirements and their specific preference.
To be honest, based on my observations of hundreds of different aviators over the last 6 years, I would hire Zimbabweans, South Africans, English, and Canadians over U.S. trained pilots as a general statement. At the same time I've seen very good pilots from some real crap countries and some pretty bad pilots from supposedly good countries. To date, the best approach and landing I've seen in training belongs to an Ethiopian.
Typhoonpilot
Typhoon pilot,
How many American pilots do you know or have seen working for an overseas airline? Also, how are Americans generally treated in the overseas airline industry?
Your profile says that you live in Dubai, so I'm assuming you are a pilot for Emirates Airlines. Are there any Americans working as pilots at Emirates?
How many American pilots do you know or have seen working for an overseas airline? Also, how are Americans generally treated in the overseas airline industry?
Your profile says that you live in Dubai, so I'm assuming you are a pilot for Emirates Airlines. Are there any Americans working as pilots at Emirates?
JA Yawd Bwoy
Well-Known Member
He is American
, If you use the search bar, there are quite a few threads on Americans such as typhoonpilot that work for say Emirates, Qatar, Cathay Pacific, and etc... I believe there is actually a 744 F/O that flies for Cathay but I forgot his name...
typhoonpilot
Well-Known Member
I know dozens personally. There are now over a thousand with all the foreign airlines worldwide. There are close to 200 alone at Emirates.
Americans can be treated well or not, it generally depends on the individual and how they present themselves. If a guy from any country comes to a foreign airline and can't change his habits/procedures then he will be looked down on.
Americans can be sloppy, both procedurally and in their decision making. They will get picked on for non-standard radio communication and terminology. If one strives to follow the procedures of the airline and uses ICAO standard radio terminology then life is much easier.
TP
Typhoonpilot,
Do you mind giving me a bio of yourself, specifically your aviation career.
On a side note, what are the chances of an American being hired overseas, fresh out of flight school, with the minimum number of flight hrs to be a F/O? I think most people who graduate from a flight academy only have somewhere between 250 to 600 hrs.
Do you mind giving me a bio of yourself, specifically your aviation career.
On a side note, what are the chances of an American being hired overseas, fresh out of flight school, with the minimum number of flight hrs to be a F/O? I think most people who graduate from a flight academy only have somewhere between 250 to 600 hrs.
typhoonpilot
Well-Known Member
Most foreign jobs are Captain jobs for experienced pilots. Only a few places hire foreign first officers. You can start out flying in the bush of Africa or New Guinea then work your way into humanitarian organizations with UN contracts.
There is starting to be a lot of work for corporate pilots in the foreign arena. India, Russia, and China are a few places where the newly wealthy are buying their own private jets or where charter companies are starting up.
Look, most pilots would prefer to be a pilot for the best airline in their home country. It's only when that goal isn't attained or other circumstances force one to look elsewhere that guys go overseas. I would have been happy to have a 36 (41) year career at USAir. Circumstances forced me to go overseas, but now that I am here the golden handcuffs have taken over and I really don't want to take a massive paycut to return to the USA.
I don't advise people look at overseas as a first choice. At least not as long as there are good jobs in their home country. In the USA Fedex, UPS, and maybe SWA are still pretty reasonable jobs. If you can get one of those then that should be a first choice.
Living overseas for more than 10 years is quite difficult. People miss their family or some other component of their home country and would like to return. There are very few people who can be career long expats.
At my company only 1 American has been here longer than 10 years. I'm the second most senior at 6 years. Fortunately I'm working at a growing airline where there are still things that excite me and still opportunities for professional and personal growth. That keeps me content, but I do want to return to the USA someday. If I could have had this job and live in the USA then you would never be able to wipe the smile off my face.
Typhoonpilot
typhoonpilot
Well-Known Member
JDE
Well-Known Member
Both I guess, but mostly fitting in. You made mention earlier of using standard ICAO radio phraseology - things like that.
typhoonpilot
Well-Known Member
It's not so much a question of studying as it is a question of attitude. Americans with an attitude ( i.e. Delta pilots who think their poo poo doesn't stink and who can't believe their is another way to fly an airplane other than the "Delta way" will fail training very quickly (( Charlie Sergeant at Korean, for example)). Not to pick on Delta pilots, but we've got two here at Emirates who will never upgrade because they just don't get it and never will.
The key to success as an expat is to fit in. That means flying the airplane the way the company that hires you says to fly it. That means not questioning the way they do things when you are a new hire. That means not argueing with instructors and examiners. That means being nice to people even when they are being a pain in the butt and asking you to do things that are clearly not necessary. That means understanding that not everyone wants to bomb Iraq into the stone age. That means not everyone believes a gun in the cockpit is a good idea.
So, go in with an open mind and be willing to try things a different way. That really is the key to success as an expat.
Typhoonpilot
P.S. George W. Bush is hated by everyone outside the USA.
Cruise
Well-Known Member
Thanks, that's a great perspective. So, given aeronautical knowledge, or personality....would you say one is more important than the other. Obviously both are important.....however, does having a great personality and a willingness to 'fit in' outweigh a deficit in knowledge, or vice versa?
Haha, for good reason.
There's a great number of people who feel that way here in the US too.
Stone Cold
Well-Known Member
Great perspective, typhoonpilot. As always, your contributions here and other places is fantastic!!
I will talk a little about the private sector vs. the airline sector. I am extremely new here, and still learning the ropes. When I came over, my main goal was to learn as much about the culture, language, and flying as I possibly could. I did not want to be the typical American, saying this is how we do everything in the States, and the States are better than you, so speak English, etc., etc. You know, the typical American stereotype. I came in with an open mind, and still have one.
I can honestly say I've eaten things I never, ever would have considered before, as they are local traditions. Some, I would not really consider eating any place but here (Salo..if you don't know what it is, look it up. It actually tastes okay spread on bread), and others that I will miss (Borsch soup).
As far as the flying, where I am at, they need people used to the airplane. We fly VIP's around for the company. They want experience, and they want a smooth ride. Period. They pay us well and make sure we are happy while we are here to keep us around. They know we are very far away, and are taking excellent care of us.
As far as what to study, there really is no way to study for proper radio terminology. Do you ever use slang; well, stop it then. Do you not know how you are supposed to say something on the radio? Well, look it up and always use proper phraseology. Don't be Mr. Cool on the radio. There are way too many accents and languages involved in flying over here to throw in some American phrases, or the Joe Cool "radio voice". It doesn't work.
So, basically, be yourself, unless you're a jerk. If you're a jerk, act like you aren't a jerk, and adapt to the culture, whether it is Dubai, the Ukraine, Russia, or a nice little apartment on the Med. in Palma de Mallorca. If only I didn't have to go to Recurrent back in April...
I will talk a little about the private sector vs. the airline sector. I am extremely new here, and still learning the ropes. When I came over, my main goal was to learn as much about the culture, language, and flying as I possibly could. I did not want to be the typical American, saying this is how we do everything in the States, and the States are better than you, so speak English, etc., etc. You know, the typical American stereotype. I came in with an open mind, and still have one.
I can honestly say I've eaten things I never, ever would have considered before, as they are local traditions. Some, I would not really consider eating any place but here (Salo..if you don't know what it is, look it up. It actually tastes okay spread on bread), and others that I will miss (Borsch soup).
As far as the flying, where I am at, they need people used to the airplane. We fly VIP's around for the company. They want experience, and they want a smooth ride. Period. They pay us well and make sure we are happy while we are here to keep us around. They know we are very far away, and are taking excellent care of us.
As far as what to study, there really is no way to study for proper radio terminology. Do you ever use slang; well, stop it then. Do you not know how you are supposed to say something on the radio? Well, look it up and always use proper phraseology. Don't be Mr. Cool on the radio. There are way too many accents and languages involved in flying over here to throw in some American phrases, or the Joe Cool "radio voice". It doesn't work.
So, basically, be yourself, unless you're a jerk. If you're a jerk, act like you aren't a jerk, and adapt to the culture, whether it is Dubai, the Ukraine, Russia, or a nice little apartment on the Med. in Palma de Mallorca.
If only I didn't have to go to Recurrent back in April...
typhoonpilot
Well-Known Member
Well, a smart guy with a bad attitude won't be successful while a guy who needs to learn a lot, but has a good attitude, will probably do okay in the long run. Obviously they have to meet a minimum level of knowledge and be willing to put in the effort to learn all that's new with flying international.
TP