Using a FTD towards the 250hr commercial requirement
- Thread starter ca12_15
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chuckles1225
Well-Known Member
50hrs is correct for part 61. As far as where it is in the regs... I can't seem to find it right now either, though I have in the past.
mtsu_av8er
Well-Known Member
It's toward the end of 61.129:
(i) Permitted credit for use of a flight simulator or flight training device. (1) Except as provided in paragraph (i)(2) of this section, an applicant who has not accomplished the training required by this section in a course conducted by a training center certificated under part 142 of this chapter may:
(i) Credit a maximum of 50 hours toward the total aeronautical experience requirements for an airplane or powered-lift rating, provided the aeronautical experience was obtained from an authorized instructor in a flight simulator or flight training device that represents that class of airplane or powered-lift category and type, if applicable, appropriate to the rating sought; and
(ii) Credit a maximum of 25 hours toward the total aeronautical experience requirements of this section for a helicopter rating, provided the aeronautical experience was obtained from an authorized instructor in a flight simulator or flight training device that represents a helicopter and type, if applicable, appropriate to the rating sought.
(i) Permitted credit for use of a flight simulator or flight training device. (1) Except as provided in paragraph (i)(2) of this section, an applicant who has not accomplished the training required by this section in a course conducted by a training center certificated under part 142 of this chapter may:
(i) Credit a maximum of 50 hours toward the total aeronautical experience requirements for an airplane or powered-lift rating, provided the aeronautical experience was obtained from an authorized instructor in a flight simulator or flight training device that represents that class of airplane or powered-lift category and type, if applicable, appropriate to the rating sought; and
(ii) Credit a maximum of 25 hours toward the total aeronautical experience requirements of this section for a helicopter rating, provided the aeronautical experience was obtained from an authorized instructor in a flight simulator or flight training device that represents a helicopter and type, if applicable, appropriate to the rating sought.
JOEFRIDAY2
Well-Known Member
Also it can't just be any simulator. It has to be an FAA approved simulator. The Redbirds have that approval.
granlistillo
Well-Known Member
Write an email to Frasca. They sent me a document that delineates what hours can be used for what rating and cites the FAR. I don't have it or I would pm it to you.
CoffeeIcePapers
Well-Hung Member
Usually, when you factor in the price of the sim + instructor, it is almost always cheaper to rent a 152 or something.
JOEFRIDAY2
Well-Known Member
I don't believe it's cheaper--but many times it is not much more to fly the real airplane. The instructor is usually paid the same in the sim or in the plane so the only difference comes down to the cost of the plane vs. the cost of the sim.
You are correct that an instructor has to be with the student on the simulator in order for the student to be able to log the time towards the rating.
I do like those Redbirds though!
Joe
Nihon_Ni
Well-Known Member
You'll have to look at the documentation that accompanies the sim you intend to use. 61.129 allows you to Credit a maximum of 50 hours, but the FAA restricts certain FTDs based on their realism. For example, my school has a PI-135 PCATD. For the instrument rating, FAR 61.65 allows A maximum of 20 hours may be performed in that flight simulator or flight training device if the training was not accomplished in accordance with part 142 of this chapter. However, the FAA restricts a PCATD to 10 hr of credit for the IR.
At our club, use of the sim is free -- all you have to do is pay for the CFI's time. 10 hrs of instrument instruction is only $300, so it's a pretty good deal. There are also things I can do in a sim that I can't do in a plane: move you from one spot to another at the click of a mouse, light the engine on fire, drop the weather to below mins, etc. Most of all, you're airborne in the first 5 minutes of being billed with no before takeoff/post-landing checks required (although you may do them for training). A sim is a valuable tool and you can get good training from it, but it also has limitations. I think the best way to approach simulator training is integrated with aircraft training. Use each training device for its strong points.
Some schools will often throw in free use of a sim as part of a package deal, since the costs of something like a PCATD are really quite low. Ask your local FBO if they will give you free sim time if you get your commercial training with them. You never know...
Now, if you can split time with someone for about $25 an hr, then it's the same price as flying our sim. Flight time is a more valuable logbook entry than simulator time, but you'll probably get much better training from an hour in the sim than an hour as a safety pilot, all things being equal.
At our club, use of the sim is free -- all you have to do is pay for the CFI's time. 10 hrs of instrument instruction is only $300, so it's a pretty good deal. There are also things I can do in a sim that I can't do in a plane: move you from one spot to another at the click of a mouse, light the engine on fire, drop the weather to below mins, etc. Most of all, you're airborne in the first 5 minutes of being billed with no before takeoff/post-landing checks required (although you may do them for training). A sim is a valuable tool and you can get good training from it, but it also has limitations. I think the best way to approach simulator training is integrated with aircraft training. Use each training device for its strong points.
Some schools will often throw in free use of a sim as part of a package deal, since the costs of something like a PCATD are really quite low. Ask your local FBO if they will give you free sim time if you get your commercial training with them. You never know...
Now, if you can split time with someone for about $25 an hr, then it's the same price as flying our sim. Flight time is a more valuable logbook entry than simulator time, but you'll probably get much better training from an hour in the sim than an hour as a safety pilot, all things being equal.
Goonie
Never say die
In the airplane you can fly safety pilot though and cut the rental in half.
Plus there is a limit to what you can do in a FTD for 50 hours. I would go insane!
Mike H
Well-Known Member
50 hours is a Lonnnnnnng time to sit in a sim- no matter how long you try to spread the time out.