USAirways, not that we didn't see it coming

Re: USAirways, not that we didn\'t see it coming

The term "euthanasia" keeps coming to my mind. Understand I do not want to see anyone out of a job, but it's a reality in a "capitalist" market. Let's hope everyone (me included) has prepared for this, because it's not going to be pretty. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif
 
Re: USAirways, not that we didn\'t see it coming

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The term "euthanasia" keeps coming to my mind. Understand I do not want to see anyone out of a job, but it's a reality in a "capitalist" market. Let's hope everyone (me included) has prepared for this, because it's not going to be pretty. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif

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"Everyone" as in those from US Air, or do you mean that there's gonna be a severe trickle-down effect? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
Re: USAirways, not that we didn\'t see it coming

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"Everyone" as in those from US Air, or do you mean that there's gonna be a severe trickle-down effect? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

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Trickedown would be an understatement. Mainline Airways, PSA, PDT, ALG, MAG, REP/CHQ/SA, Colgan, folks working in the CLT, PIT, and PHL airports and surrounding businesses. Implosions are rarely clean.
 
Re: USAirways, not that we didn\'t see it coming

I hate to see them go. I have flown them pretty much all the time until i flew on FlyI recently. After that experience, there is no way I would fly on US Air if FlyI flew the same route again.
 
Re: USAirways, not that we didn\'t see it coming

So they're almost done?
 
Re: USAirways, not that we didn\'t see it coming

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So they're almost done?

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It all depends if they can get financing from outside investors, and cancelling or deferring
aircraft deliveries would certainly help.
 
Re: USAirways, not that we didn\'t see it coming

Sad thing is the pilots came out on Friday night and said they were ready to come back to the table. The company pretty much ignored them on that. It'll be interesting to see what MAG does now. CHQ is spread out fairly well with the new United 170 contracts and the DAL flying that they can probably absorb the hit better than most. PSA, Allegheny and Piedmont are pretty much done at this point. Being the eternal optimist, I'm still hoping they can get something done, but being the realist I ain't packing my bags for Farmington any time soon.
 
Re: USAirways, not that we didn\'t see it coming

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Sad thing is the pilots came out on Friday night and said they were ready to come back to the table. The company pretty much ignored them on that.

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No big surprise there. Management at several carriers have learned that the best labor deals are to be had in BK court, so bargaining in "good faith" is pointless. Precisely why DL is headed there as well. Too bad BK courts don't force concessions in executive compensation on them at the same time. Speaking of, seems to me that entry into bankruptcy should result in a "failing grade" for top executives, and thus they should lose their jobs and golden parachutes as a result. Might prove an effective deterrent to all these seemingly nonchalant bankruptcies.

On the bright side, MAG will be part of any solution to U's problems, guaranteed.
 
Re: USAirways, not that we didn\'t see it coming

Well if US Air really wanted to take advantage of BK court, US Air could have asked the BK judge to rip up all of those union contracts.
 
Re: USAirways, not that we didn\'t see it coming

How do you know that's not the plan this time around? Labor costs are one of their prime targets according to their press release.
 
Re: USAirways, not that we didn\'t see it coming

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PSA, Allegheny and Piedmont are pretty much done at this point. Being the eternal optimist, I'm still hoping they can get something done, but being the realist I ain't packing my bags for Farmington any time soon.

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First off, technically Allegheny ceased to exist earlier this summer. It's just Piedmont and PSA now.

Second, don't be so quick to jump to this conclusion - Piedmont has an extremely low cost structure and right now is a money makin' machine(sorta) for Airways Group. Piedmont has a total of 38 Dash's after the Allegheny merger and ZERO lease payments - they outright own every aircraft on their property - all of the leased Dash's have already been returned. PSA does have alot of lease payments but they also have alot of those shiny new CRJ's on the flight line. You can bet the farm that the 'restructuring' plan will call for reductions in mainline flying and increased RJ flying. I've also heard 'rumors' that Airways will be looking to trim contract carrier flying and bring it more 'in house' which would make sense the way it was explained to me.

Also, something else to keep in mind, Piedmont and PSA ARE NOT OWNED by US Airways - they are owned by US Aiways Group - that's an important disntinction to make. I'm not sure that there are any other airlines out there looking for additional DHC/CRJ lift capacity but even a total liquidatioin of US Airways(mainline) wouldn't necessarily be the end of PDT and PSA.

Do I think PDT and PSA will be around in 10 - or even 5 - years from now? Not a chance but never say never in this business.

Jason
 
Re: USAirways, not that we didn\'t see it coming

Wonder what smaller operations like Colgan will do? Operate the same routes under their name?
 
Re: USAirways, not that we didn\'t see it coming

[ QUOTE ]
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So they're almost done?

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It all depends if they can get financing from outside investors, and cancelling or deferring
aircraft deliveries would certainly help.

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At this point they're not even looking for outside investors. They have reached an agreement with the ATSB and RSA to use some of their cash position to support their operations instead of getting DIP financing.

If anyone were to actually READ the court filings and transformation plan, instead of listen to rumors all day long you would find out that they are really doing the Ch. 11 thing to protect themselves from creditors while they go after lower costs, mainly from labor. Since labor was not willing to deal outside of Ch. 11, they're going to have to deal inside Ch. 11, and if they're not willing to deal at all, then the judge will do them a deal instead, which is bound to be less attractive than a consensual agreement.

New labor agreements are at the absolute core of the plan. The rest of the plan includes streamlined scheduling and utilization, fare optimization and a whole host of other goals, all of which will lose the company more money unless they can cut costs. So the first priority I would say would be to cut costs. Then they can work on restructuring their operations.

Now, whether or not they can achieve the various aspects of the transformation plan and whether the transformation plan will work will determine whether or not they survive. they miscalculated the situation (along with a lot of other people) last time around, so we'll see if they get it right this time.

One thing which will be difficult for them to do will be to arrange financing for any further RJ deliveries, (due to their very low credit rating and lack of leverage on their balance sheet). This may very well be a major part of their restructuring plan. If it is, then they may be forced to contract out further RJ flying to carriers like TSA, MESA, CHQ et al who can finance the aircraft. If they can get the financing somehow, then they will likely give the RJs to PSA and MDA. I am sure they would LIKE to bring the flying in-house, but may be forced to outsource the flying in order to get the transformation plan to work like they want it to.

The court filings and plenty of other information is out there for everyone to read. I highly suggest those who have a stake in the situation read as much as they can form as reliable sources as possible.

Ray
 
Re: USAirways, not that we didn\'t see it coming

Yeah, after the initial "here we go again, now what am I gonna do" thinking, I actually read their website ( www.transformingusairways.com ) and read up. Ray's right, they're doing this to shield themselves from creditors while they (hopefully) gain some ground. I think they might also be trying to break into the mechanic's contracts, too. While the pilots have been darn near giving away free flight hours, the A&Ps have pretty much refused to talk. And if MAG swoops in an low balls the price of running PSA and Piedmont (I knew one US Air carrier got folded into another earlier, I just couldn't remember which one), the bankruptcy court might FORCE it on US Air.
 
Re: USAirways, not that we didn\'t see it coming

The court can force the mechanics and f/as into lower paying contracts, but it cannot force the mechanics and f/as to work for those wages and work rules. The mechanics might not come back to work at that point, basically grounding the airline.

Not many carriers are looking for Dash8 flying, so unfortunately the prospects for PDT are slim to nil. As for PSA, they have a few CR7s online, but CR2s just aren't in demand anymore. There's at least one article out there pointing out how MAG would be caught with its pants down if U ceases to exist, because it'd be virtually impossible to find a home for those 36 ERJs and 25 CRJs.
 
Re: USAirways, not that we didn\'t see it coming

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There's at least one article out there pointing out how MAG would be caught with its pants down if U ceases to exist, because it'd be virtually impossible to find a home for those 36 ERJs and 25 CRJs.

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Other than Pinal Air Park, Goodyear, Tucson, or Kingman. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 
Re: USAirways, not that we didn\'t see it coming

Kell and Ray you are almost there. I'm willing to bet the real reason for ch 11 is to allow a judge to determine the labor terms rather than through negotiation.

Ch 11 throws any existing contracts out the window. All grievances are put on hold and probably will never be heard from again.
 
Re: USAirways, not that we didn\'t see it coming

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Also, something else to keep in mind, Piedmont and PSA ARE NOT OWNED by US Airways - they are owned by US Aiways Group - that's an important disntinction to make.

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US Airways Group, Inc.
US Airways, Inc.
PSA Airlines, Inc.
Piedmont Airlines, Inc. and
Material Services Company, Inc.

ALL filed for chapter 11 bankruptcy protection.
 
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