UPS 1354 Transcripts Released by the FAA

I'm sure there's a lot going through one's head when a crash like this occurs. However, from the standpoint of a person that MIGHT crash and be on fire someday, I'm shocked the amount of time that went by before the TWR called for CFR.......!
 
What are we suppose to hear that is unusual? It sounds like normal chatter between ATC and the pilots.
 
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I'm not exactly knowledgeable about ARFF or procedures with a downed aircraft. But I am very surprised with the seemingly lack of communication here. I don't know what was not on the audio, but someone obviously made a huge mistake if "redbird" was wanting to get in "standby position" for an approaching aircraft that has already crashed! He acted like he had no idea what to do and had no idea that the aircraft had crashed. He seemed to be under the impression that it was an inbound emergency that MIGHT crash. I'm not sure if that was the controllers fault for lack of communication or "redbirds" fault for misinterpretation. However, this airports' ground emergency procedures clearly need to be looked at. Were they unprofessional and ignorant? Or perhaps the training they were given was not sufficient enough? Either way...it could mean the difference between life and death for someone.
 
WOW from the ATC side of the house that sounded horrible.....it took a minute and 30 seconds to ring the crash phone YGTBSM !!!!!
 
jgheggie said:
I'm not exactly knowledgeable about ARFF or procedures with a downed aircraft. But I am very surprised with the seemingly lack of communication here. I don't know what was not on the audio, but someone obviously made a huge mistake if "redbird" was wanting to get in "standby position" for an approaching aircraft that has already crashed! He acted like he had no idea what to do and had no idea that the aircraft had crashed. He seemed to be under the impression that it was an inbound emergency that MIGHT crash. I'm not sure if that was the controllers fault for lack of communication or "redbirds" fault for misinterpretation. However, this airports' ground emergency procedures clearly need to be looked at. Were they unprofessional and ignorant? Or perhaps the training they were given was not sufficient enough? Either way...it could mean the difference between life and death for someone.
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I would like to see a full chronology with running time, but it doesn't surprise me that the crash truck was left waiting for instructions while the location of the crash was verified. I don't know crash truck procedures, but it makes sense to me that the crash truck could have been told to hold in the standby position and the crash truck crew assumed standby position suggested that emergency aircraft was inbound.
 
Pilot Fighter said:
I would like to see a full chronology with running time, but it doesn't surprise me that the crash truck was left waiting for instructions while the location of the crash was verified. I don't know crash truck procedures, but it makes sense to me that the crash truck could have been told to hold in the standby position and the crash truck crew assumed standby position suggested that emergency aircraft was inbound.
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That would be my take. The fire crew can only go by the information they have, and if information is sparse or still being confirmed, that can cause delays. It happens.
 
I dunno, being a pilot, and listening to a sound recording of a crash is kind of morbid, don't you think? Not a whole bunch to be learned from it. If I'm going to listen/watch someone dying in an airplane, I hope to learn something from it. What am I going to learn about how to not do what these guys did from listening to this?
 
mshunter said:
I dunno, being a pilot, and listening to a sound recording of a crash is kind of morbid, don't you think? Not a whole bunch to be learned from it. If I'm going to listen/watch someone dying in an airplane, I hope to learn something from it. What am I going to learn about how to not do what these guys did from listening to this?
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Some pilots can't stand to listen or watch accident related materials. It has always interested me and I regularly study accidents to try and learn. Not a whole lot to learn from this particular piece of audio, but i wouldn't know that until i listened to it. The immediate take away from this could be that an accident can rear it's ugly head when it's not expected at all. As pilots we sometimes get lulled into the security blanket of we'll have the opportunity to fix a problem and give it our best chance of survival. Likely by the time this crew realized something was wrong it was already too late. Hopefully there will be some lesson as a result of this. I've never not learned something from an investigation, which keeps me reading and listening whether or not people think that is "kind of morbid".
 
Every airline class I've been through, and often recurrent, we will study accidents in depth and if its applicable, listen to a CVR or ATC tapes. I've worked for more than one company that has had an accident in their history and of course they focus on those in particular. I find it very interesting and while it's an uncomfortable thing no matter how you shake it, it can be a good learning tool.
 
mshunter said:
I dunno, being a pilot, and listening to a sound recording of a crash is kind of morbid, don't you think? Not a whole bunch to be learned from it. If I'm going to listen/watch someone dying in an airplane, I hope to learn something from it. What am I going to learn about how to not do what these guys did from listening to this?
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I don't know, I've surely read more than a thousand accident reports(been reading them since 11 honestly) and listened to any CVR or ATC accident audio I've ever come across. Like @mikecweb said, if anything, you take away the fact these UPS guys more than likely had no idea they were about to plow into the hill. A good reminder that things happen fast. Personally, both from planespotting with ATC(all I do at work) or from flying, I very often see situations and a few events in a chain that bring an accident I've read about to mind. You never know what you can learn from an accident until you read the full report. Morbid or not, knowledge is power. We could very well die anytime we get in the plane, that's a risk we really all need to accept. But the more you know, the less likely you'll repeat the mistakes of the deceased pilots/crews before you. In theory anyway.

What's REALLY scary are the accidents that the NTSB pretty much shrugs off and says "There was no way to prevent this". Here is a mid air collision between a Golden West Airlines Twin-Otter and a Cessna that is a good(and scary) example. Known radar glitch made Cessna invisible to ATC just prior to the collision, ATC issued traffic alert to the crew for a helicopter that had them looking in the other direction, and the sun and other obstructions likely would have prevented any of the pilots from seeing each other regardless. Sometimes that's just the way it goes.
 
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