Up/Down Facilities. good? bad? discuss amongst yourselves

Spokepoke

New Member
Just curious of peoples experiences at an up/down terminal facility as compared to purely local or tracon. I was advised to go towards this type of facility and was glad that I received my TOL to PIA which is a class C 24 hr ops. General forum to get others ideas on these types of facilities and to get a better idea of what I will be running into.
 

LawnGnome

Well-Known Member
Re: Up/Down Facilities. good? bad? discuss amongst yourselve

The bad thing about an up/down right now is it will take you a lot longer to check out than obviously just a tower alone...that means longer time before you get the monies.

up/downs usually the towers are slower and approach ends up being the bulk of the traffic. a lot of up/downs are so understaffed that once you check out in the tower, you will be used for manning a lot and not get adequate training in the tracon and it will end up taking a while....i'm sure all facilities are different though.

it is a good facility to start at I suppose as you will learn about both tower and radar and have the experience with both of those....so in that respect, good....
 

Zeppelinpilot

New Member
Re: Up/Down Facilities. good? bad? discuss amongst yourselve

From a training perspective i would assume an up/down is less appealing because it will take you longer. But everything I have read has said that they are better from an operational standpoint. But that is just what I have read. They are thinking of splitting KPHL and everyone there is mad because they say it will be an operational hindrance.
 

Spokepoke

New Member
Re: Up/Down Facilities. good? bad? discuss amongst yourselve

My understanding as well is that you get checked out at tower than have to go back to OKC to train on the radar. Is that true or can it all be done in the facility?
 

chichi

New Member
Re: Up/Down Facilities. good? bad? discuss amongst yourselve

My understanding as well is that you get checked out at tower than have to go back to OKC to train on the radar. Is that true or can it all be done in the facility?
It's true... you check out on the tower positions and then go back to OKC for about a month for radar training.
 

Spokepoke

New Member
Re: Up/Down Facilities. good? bad? discuss amongst yourselve

It's true... you check out on the tower positions and then go back to OKC for about a month for radar training.
Does that mean I'll be back at OKC getting paid my rate and still getting per diems? Trust me, money is not important to me for this job just sounds like an added bonus.
 

LawnGnome

Well-Known Member
Re: Up/Down Facilities. good? bad? discuss amongst yourselve

Right now PHL you...even though they are a combined facility...it is so complex and busy that you only get checked out in the tower or the tracon...i have a buddy that works there. So once you check into PHL they will assign you either up or do...they are thinking about consolidating there approach control with a bunch of others like what is being done across the country.

to answer your other question, you will check out in tower at whatever facility you are assigned, then go back to OKC making whatever pay you would make to be fully checked out in the tower as well as the 80 a day per diem and travel to get you there and back.
 

Spokepoke

New Member
Re: Up/Down Facilities. good? bad? discuss amongst yourselve

Right now PHL you...even though they are a combined facility...it is so complex and busy that you only get checked out in the tower or the tracon...i have a buddy that works there. So once you check into PHL they will assign you either up or do...they are thinking about consolidating there approach control with a bunch of others like what is being done across the country.

to answer your other question, you will check out in tower at whatever facility you are assigned, then go back to OKC making whatever pay you would make to be fully checked out in the tower as well as the 80 a day per diem and travel to get you there and back.

That's good to know. Luckily my facility (PIA) is light traffic and one of the only airports in Illinois that has another towered airport under its control (BMI). Either way everyone I've talked to said it's a great learning facility, however they didn't give me much info on why.
 

JT ATC

New Member
Re: Up/Down Facilities. good? bad? discuss amongst yourselve

You guys should quit worrying about the time it takes to train. You will spend alot more time being rated. Having an up/down facility would be great cuz you get to do radar and tower. I've been radar my entire career and i'm going to ZID. So the only windows I get to see are looking in when I walk into work.
 

gimpfest

New Member
Re: Up/Down Facilities. good? bad? discuss amongst yourselve

The bad thing about an up/down right now is it will take you a lot longer to check out than obviously just a tower alone...


Is that always true? I have heard that depending on the facility, a lower level up/down like a 8 or 9 could get you checked out faster than a lvl 11 /12 stand alone or center?
 

LawnGnome

Well-Known Member
Re: Up/Down Facilities. good? bad? discuss amongst yourselve

You are talking about level 8/9 up down compared to a center....it depends, I would say that you might get checked out a little quicker on average at the up/down than at a center.

I was comparing an up/down to a tower only facility. you will check out a lot faster in a tower only facility than in an up/down or center facility.
 

Prino

Well-Known Member
Re: Up/Down Facilities. good? bad? discuss amongst yourselve

i would still rather work a 7-9 up/down than a stand alone tracon or tower...working a lower level up/down gives you a good chance to get your feet wet with both options, pick up some techniques, learn phraseology, and other little things, then when you figure out what you like you can move to the big leagues and all you have to focus on is new procedures. a lot of us newer guys dont need to be chasing the money, it will come with experience. check your ego at the door and start out at a lower level facility, THEN when you check out start worrying about the rest of your career. till then, the hardest part is getting checked out
 

Delta Romeo

New Member
Re: Up/Down Facilities. good? bad? discuss amongst yourselve

Great benefits to getting training at a slow to moderate up/down facility. Used to be that most of the ATC-7 and -8 up/downs only took about a year to a year and a half for OTS hires to certify to CPC (called FPL back in the day). You wind up with a good basic understanding of radar, vectoring priciples, and a CTO to boot. All great to have for career progression. If I had a kid getting into this now, that's exactly where I'd recommend they go for a first facility.
 

Sooner1ATC

New Member
Re: Up/Down Facilities. good? bad? discuss amongst yourselve

I'm heading to a level 9 up/down and talked with one of the managers there and was told I should be checked out around a year(depending on how quick I picked it up). He said it shouldn't take longer than a year and a half....This is at a facility where training isn't backed up.
 

Towerboss

New Member
Re: Up/Down Facilities. good? bad? discuss amongst yourselve

You guys should quit worrying about the time it takes to train. You will spend alot more time being rated. Having an up/down facility would be great cuz you get to do radar and tower. I've been radar my entire career and i'm going to ZID. So the only windows I get to see are looking in when I walk into work.

Why didn't you come over to the tower at IAB?
 
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