United Aviate sued!

Maximilian_Jenius said:
Sounds like every pilot mill. Hopefully ATP's next!

www.flyingmag.com

United Aviate Academy Sued Over ‘Consumer Fraud’

Around two dozen students have filed a federal complaint against the airline-sponsored flight school, alleging fraud.
www.flyingmag.com www.flyingmag.com
Click to expand...

All of the pro flight schools do this including the one that I worked for.

It's similar to trying to an airline trying to guarantee passengers that flights will depart on time every time. There are too many variables to make guarantees like that.
 
Maximilian_Jenius said:
Sounds like every pilot mill. Hopefully ATP's next!

www.flyingmag.com

United Aviate Academy Sued Over ‘Consumer Fraud’

Around two dozen students have filed a federal complaint against the airline-sponsored flight school, alleging fraud.
www.flyingmag.com www.flyingmag.com
Click to expand...

And Im sure the two dozen students had no part in any of the delays......Are there people finishing in stated times? I bet there is. Same for ATP. Hell I've been around here for 20+ years and ATP has been around longer than that. If people now are taking issue with ATP then they didn't do their homework. For someone to take issue with that is disingenuous at best.
 
“Defendants made these representations knowing and/or with reason to know that they did not have the necessary resources to accommodate and graduate within one year the students they intended to enroll and/or did enroll and from whom they accepted payments,” the complaint states. “As time went on, Defendants continued to make the same representations to new students despite knowing the representations were false.”
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laughter intensifies
 
Malko said:
And Im sure the two dozen students had no part in any of the delays......Are there people finishing in stated times? I bet there is. Same for ATP. Hell I've been around here for 20+ years and ATP has been around longer than that. If people now are taking issue with ATP then they didn't do their homework. For someone to take issue with that is disingenuous at best.
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I warned a friend of a friend not to go to ATP. I told him that its very accelerated. That if he didn't keep up, he'll get let go. He got let go and didn't even get to solo.

He said his instructor didn't do any ground with him. They just flew together and when they did, his instructor was highly critical and never offered advice/suggestion. He said that his instructor threatened him. Saying that management was watching his progress and were concerned with his lack of progression. That he needed to improve or else.

He said that his instructor told him that management was putting pressure on him. To progress him and his other non-progressing students. I took him up and he wasn't a bad stick. He had a few issues, nothing too bad. I offered him some advice. I watched and was quiet and let him mess up and figure out things before saying something. I didn't really have to speak up, or take the controls.

Oh, well... I originally told him to go to a mom and pop shop. But he'd recently seen Top Gun 2, he's 19 and decided to be a pilot. He fell hook line and sinker, for the glossy advertising. Now he has a $1500.00 loan payment.
 
KLB said:
All of the pro flight schools do this including the one that I worked for.

It's similar to trying to an airline trying to guarantee passengers that flights will depart on time every time. There are too many variables to make guarantees like that.
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Yeah. My pilot mill was the same. But in SLC we were burdened with frequent weather issues. Most notably icing. Plus a lot of mechanical issues pertaining to the older fleet.

Which translated into A LOT of repeated lessons. My 9 month accelerated program went almost 2 yrs. Then they closed temporarily in May 2020, due to COVID. So, I left with only my CSEL.
 
Maximilian_Jenius said:
I warned a friend of a friend not to go to ATP. I told him that its very accelerated. That if he didn't keep up, he'll get let go. He got let go and didn't even get to solo.

He said his instructor didn't do any ground with him. They just flew together and when they did, his instructor was highly critical and never offered advice/suggestion. He said that his instructor threatened him. Saying that management was watching his progress and were concerned with his lack of progression. That he needed to improve or else.

He said that his instructor told him that management was putting pressure on him. To progress him and his other non-progressing students. I took him up and he wasn't a bad stick. He had a few issues, nothing too bad. I offered him some advice. I watched and was quiet and let him mess up and figure out things before saying something. I didn't really have to speak up, or take the controls.

Oh, well... I originally told him to go to a mom and pop shop. But he'd recently seen Top Gun 2, he's 19 and decided to be a pilot. He fell hook line and sinker, for the glossy advertising. Now he has a $1500.00 loan payment.
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said the same thing from my college roommate...he agreed and didn't go with a big box company... sadly he got a medical issue arise which put a damper on his hopes of going professional. Got his PPL and IR though!

edit for context: my college roommate (from 20 years ago) sold his software company and wanted to be a pilot...
 
The European-style cadet programs came on-speed just as they weren’t necessary any more.

What was supposed to be an on-going shortage of pilots was relatively short-lived. It’s what happens when companies are flush with money and problem solve “by committee”. I’ve been the ‘bad guy oldster’ in a room full of much younger people with a problem to solve without budgetary concerns. It’s not pretty.
 
derg said:
The European-style cadet programs came on-speed just as they weren’t necessary any more.

What was supposed to be an on-going shortage of pilots was relatively short-lived. It’s what happens when companies are flush with money and problem solve “by committee”. I’ve been the ‘bad guy oldster’ in a room full of much younger people with a problem to solve without budgetary concerns. It’s not pretty.
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The idea wasn't so bad. It was just poorly executed. There should never be a shortage of CFI's at a program like this. It should be where applicants that enter the program, graduate to instructors until they reach qualified times to go to the regionals, and eventually matriculate to the legacy. But that has to be a solid system in place to make it all work. They needed some individuals that are very talented at running a flight school who can handle all the challenges that come along with it. Flight training times from beginning to end also needed to be 2.5 years at the very least.

The people in this program aren't college aged students. They are older and can't afford to drop everything to put in amount of time it takes to flight train to get it all done in 1 year. I used to do it with foreign students at the flight school I instructed at, but it took flight training six days a week with a ground lessons daily to have a student achieve just private to commercial in that time frame.
 
derg said:
The European-style cadet programs came on-speed just as they weren’t necessary any more.

What was supposed to be an on-going shortage of pilots was relatively short-lived. It’s what happens when companies are flush with money and problem solve “by committee”. I’ve been the ‘bad guy oldster’ in a room full of much younger people with a problem to solve without budgetary concerns. It’s not pretty.
Click to expand...

I don't think the math ever worked out, where the model was essentially to train 8 of your replacements. Eventually, you are gonig to have trouble supplying enough students. Or, you are going to flood the market with too much supply.
 
KLB said:
The idea wasn't so bad. It was just poorly executed. There should never be a shortage of CFI's at a program like this. It should be where applicants that enter the program, graduate to instructors until they reach qualified times to go to the regionals, and eventually matriculate to the legacy. But that has to be a solid system in place to make it all work. They needed some individuals that are very talented at running a flight school who can handle all the challenges that come along with it. Flight training times from beginning to end also needed to be 2.5 years at the very least.

The people in this program aren't college aged students. They are older and can't afford to drop everything to put in amount of time it takes to flight train to get it all done in 1 year. I used to do it with foreign students at the flight school I instructed at, but it took flight training six days a week with a ground lessons daily to have a student achieve just private to commercial in that time frame.
Click to expand...
In today's world at pilot mills. Only the cool kids, get to be CFI's. Then get to go on to the Frontier, Avelo and Sun Country at 1500 tt. Everyone else gets told goodbye, at the end of the program.
 
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