United A320 hail incident ORD

Cherokee_Cruiser

Well-Known Member
Yikes. Did ATC fly the plane into hail because he's got 3 planes in a row behind the plane? Can't ATC see a WX overlay return on his screen?


 

Nick

Well-Known Member
"I got three guys behind you, I need to get you on course."

Yeah, and I need to not have whitecaps in my decaf green tea.

Unable MOBLE for weather.



Disclaimer: The old Airbus radar is bad and the depiction on the old CRT screens makes that even worse.
 

Maximilian_Jenius

Super User
"I got three guys behind you, I need to get you on course."

Yeah, and I need to not have whitecaps in my decaf green tea.

Unable MOBLE for weather.



Disclaimer: The old Airbus radar is bad and the depiction on the old CRT screens makes that even worse.
UA has some really old 320's!
 

BigZ

Well-Known Member
ORD vectored departures are great, but are geared towards everyone fanning out. Which is an issue when there is a lot of wx. Had it once when the departure was insisting on driving the conga line through some thunderstorms. Didn't find hail, but found some notable bumps and very heavy rain (the kind that makes talking to each other difficult) and the radar painted even uglier once we were deep enough to start painting something behind that cell.
"Departure Awesome Eagle 3999.. is there a plan?"
"Uhm.. what do you need?"
"40 left for weather now"
"Approved"
(Half a dozen more urgent sounding requests, including from a dude right ahead of us)
I guess if they hear no complaints and someone 10 planes ago reported smooth they've no reason to move you.
Also iirc dry hail doesn't paint as bad as rain on the radar
 

phill1174

Well-Known Member
We had problems like this in the southeast this summer. When I key up for WX deviations it’s not a request. I’m letting you know where we’re going. Now if ATC has a plan that will help them and keep us safe I’m happy with that but if not then oh well. ATC didn’t sign off for the airplane.
 

Cherokee_Cruiser

Well-Known Member
ding ding ding! Also lots of times our radar paints stuff as moderate while y’all are seeing red. But I can only operate off what I know, and if no one informs me of anything different then I’m assuming nothings changed since that last guys report.
Curious, was there any debriefing or memos about the Aer Lingus flight out of JFK for that little complication?
 

Soul Brotha'

Well-Known Member
ding ding ding! Also lots of times our radar paints stuff as moderate while y’all are seeing red. But I can only operate off what I know, and if no one informs me of anything different then I’m assuming nothings changed since that last guys report.
I’m of the mindset of both ATC and the pilots working together. Communication is the key to see if we both like the plan or come up with a safe alternative. Anyone who yells or berates another on the radio has issues.
 

bLizZuE

Working the high speed buffet to happy hour.
Northwest and Air Canada had A320s right after Lufthansa, Air France, and Air Inter did in 89\90. I'd imagine they're retired from Delta\AC by now, but I am not sure if some 89 or 90 builds are chugging along.
This one is a 2000. The oldest one I see is 1993.
 

bLizZuE

Working the high speed buffet to happy hour.
Whatever traffic is behind me has zero bearing on what decisions I make regarding weather in front of me.

My comment is always “I can only fly one airplane at a time.”

This is not a critique on the crew but a comment on the cockpit culture of “lets be nice to the guys behind us” even if it harms me.
 

bLizZuE

Working the high speed buffet to happy hour.
We had problems like this in the southeast this summer. When I key up for WX deviations it’s not a request. I’m letting you know where we’re going. Now if ATC has a plan that will help them and keep us safe I’m happy with that but if not then oh well. ATC didn’t sign off for the airplane.
Just be prepared to use your emergency authority.

I listened to a guy call up and say “we’re turning 20 degree right for weather” and the reply was “are you declaring an emergency?” and of course he responded “well no we just need to go right” and the controller gave him a phone number because he turned into traffic.
 

greg1016

Trustworthy Source
Who flies airplanes, again?
Do you know how often ATC radar updates?
The ATC NEXRAD radar updates constantly, but we are trained that there are a few minutes lag between what we see on the scope and what is outside. My experience says the terminal radar has less lag and more sensitivity than the center radar.

What we are taught is that although our NEXRAD is slightly behind what you see in the cockpit, we have a more complete picture of what is going on. Because our antenna is on the ground looking up, we get a better visualization of the whole picture, where your radar shows you a wall and you have less of an idea of what is behind that wall. The takeaway is if you think it is better to go right, but ATC tells you everyone is going left, you should put some good consideration of going left. That said, there does not seem to be much excuse for this incident.

Once in my center days everyone was going left and getting into NY relatively easy from WATRS and one guy insisted on going right and they got a scenic view of Cape Cod on the way into NY.
 
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Baronman

Well-Known Member
"I got three guys behind you, I need to get you on course."

Yeah, and I need to not have whitecaps in my decaf green tea.

Unable MOBLE for weather.



Disclaimer: The old Airbus radar is bad and the depiction on the old CRT screens makes that even worse.
Looks like the plane was delivered in 2000. Somewhat old in terms of A320s.
 

nabbyfan

Well-Known Member
Im just a Center guy, but the pilot doesn't sound anywhere near assertive enough to me. It didnt sound to me like he was making some pressing urgent request to stay away from Severe weather. Controllers comment about the "Guys behind you, I need you on course" isnt helpful, but my understanding is basically the Pilot has to step up there and not fly through weather that is going to cause this kind of damage.

At the end of the day, Im sitting in a dark room in Palmdale.....you guys are the ones up there strapped to a metal tube. Im not going to approve WX Deviations into our warning areas, or into other traffic....but youre the PIC. Do what you need to do. I can pretty much guarantee nothing is ever going to happen to a pilot at least from my facilities POV if you declare an emergency for WX and do something to keep yourself safe.

We do have a bunch of setups that are pretty hairy....Hot airspace with Live Fire exercises on both sides of an 8 mile wide Control Extension that occasionally gets weather. LAX Arrivals ask to Deviate and all I can really do is say "Unable for hot airspace on your left and right". It feels crappy because we arent trying to be unhelpful, but it is what it is.
 

N519AT

Ahh! This is how I change this!
I was talking with a buddy of mine at Spirit and he couldn't believe we still have to run the tilt for ourselves and we don't have the fancy automatic radar. The weather radar installed on UA's Airbus fleet leaves a lot to be desired...
 
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