Unions -- Please Answer!!!

Stormflyer

Stormflyer

New Member
I am interested in being an airline pilot, and I am on the pilots' side of matters (I DO NOT think they are overpaid). Now, if I choose to go someplace like Embry-Riddle to pursue becoming a pilot, my mom will make me sign an agreement stating that I will never go on strike or anything like that.

First of all, she is mis-informed about pilots and their pay and I don't know what to tell her. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif Anyway, I would probably not participate in an event like American Airlines' pilot "sick-out" that happened in 1999, because that was voluntary and only a few pilots participated. However, in something ordered by the union like a strike, regardless of how I feel about it, would I jeopardize the career I worked so hard to obtain by going against my union? No, I more or less would feel forced to go on strike. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

I know that people like Doug can't talk about their specific situation at their airline, but someone please answer me about this. Thanks so much. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
my mom will make me sign an agreement stating that I will never go on strike or anything like that.

[/ QUOTE ]

and if you did go on strike, then what? would you have to go to your room? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ QUOTE ]
However, in something ordered by the union like a strike, regardless of how I feel about it, would I jeopardize the career I worked so hard to obtain by going against my union? No, I more or less would feel forced to go on strike.

[/ QUOTE ]

You would indeed jeopardize your career. Do a Google search on "Airline Scab List" and you will find plenty of info.
 
Well, your choice would be break the contract with your mother or be labeled a scab. If you get the latter, then you may be able to find work, but you can guarantee that you won't enjoy said work. Are there other schools that are in your potential sights other than ERAU? It's possible to get the education in less than $100K.
 
[ QUOTE ]
and if you did go on strike, then what? would you have to go to your room?

[/ QUOTE ]

Haha. No, according to her, the agreement would be that I would have to pay her every last dollar she paid for my flight training. An Embry-Riddle education can cost $120K. Granted, that's more expensive than other places but it's not cheap anywhere, period. She said she would sue me if I broke the contract. If I was at a regional airline and there was a strike, there is no chance at all I would have that much money to pay her, of course.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Well, your choice would be break the contract with your mother or be labeled a scab. If you get the latter, then you may be able to find work, but you can guarantee that you won't enjoy said work. Are there other schools that are in your potential sights other than ERAU? It's possible to get the education in less than $100K

[/ QUOTE ]

No no no, it would be for anywhere I get my flight training. Money actually isn't the issue for her, even though ERAU is pricey. She simply thinks it's dishonorable and ethically wrong or whatever to go on strike. She doesn't like unions. Even besides that, I don't think she really thinks highly of the pilot career, but she will let me do whatever I want (and I am thankful for that). My dad went so far as to say that being a pilot is like being a "glorified bus driver".

If only people knew what one has to go through to become a pilot...

and how a failed medical or semi-annual checkride at an airline could mean good-bye to your career...

et cetera
 
are you serious?? is she serious??? really???? I don't know any mom's out there that would, on purpose, steer their kid(s) to a lose-lose situation!! she really must not want you to go into the flying profession (even though she says it - probably thru baited breath)!

so to get this straight - in essence, if your working as a unionized pilot and go on strike.. she would damn you to a career of being labeled a scab? if that's the case, then maybe you should plan on either paying her back or not going into an airline that has a union and leave it at that.. or go corporate or some other type of pro pilot job. because if you go union and they go on strike..and you decide to not follow through because "my mom made me sign a contract and i'll have to pay back all the school money & she'll sue me if i break it" then you'll be labeled a scab -> and it's not a pretty thing... it's like being labeled as "the plague" when trying to get a new job, make friends, move forward in your career, your life etc....in the past, people did it because they had to feed their families and it was a necessity, not by choice and then they ended up paying for it their ENTIRE career... it's a really BIG deal and she should understand that she's risking your career, your livelyhood and your life before you've ever started it. you'd be surprised at how often scabs are *still* threatened....

with that, if you ever did decide to go to a unionized airline, PLAN on paying her back the money because you'll have enuff in the years to come to be able to pay her as you go if you follow union rules when they call for it....not going on strike when the union calls for it is a lose-lose situation IMO.

you need to show her and make her understand that it is dishonorable & ethically wrong to go against the union during strike time. it's just so different from any other job out there!

[ QUOTE ]
My dad went so far as to say that being a pilot is like being a "glorified bus driver".

[/ QUOTE ] well, to be honest - that's what doug calls it too! hahaha /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

good luck, it sounds like your going to need it to win her over. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
 
If you join a union, you comit yourself to going by what ever the union diecides to do. You can vote against going on strike, but if you get out voted then you are bound to go along. This is what happened with my family. My dad works at a oil refinery. Back in 89 the union voted to go on strike. Even though he voted against the strike which he thought was over a stupid disagrement, and was tapped to be promoted to a managment position soon, he still walked off the job and onto the picket line! Six months after the strike ended he was promoted to the management position.

The whole concept of a union only works if everybody is on board. So they have some pretty nasty techniques to keep everybody in line. The Scab list is the main one. My mom's cousin crossed the picket line at Eastern in 92(?). He has told me that there isn't anything he regrets more in his life. Despite thousands of hours of time as a captian, he couldn't get a job, even durring the hireing boom of the late 90s. He was fortunate that he got a job in IT in the ATL are so he didn't have to move.

People have been shot for crossing a pickett line.

I know many non union companies who wouldn't hire a Scab, just because they broke thier word. And I can virtually guarentee you that you will never even toss bags for an airline if you cross the picket line.

Now I'm not the biggest fan of unions, I think they cause as much harm as they do good, but I would never ever cross a pickett line.

If you feel that you can't in good conciense join a union, then you just have to get a job flying that doesn't have one. This dosen't automaticly limit you to a low income. Many corprate operators pay well, and offer great flying. JetBlue runs without unions (for now).

Piss off your Mom/destroy your career, you'll have to chose.
 
How old are you? Maybe, if you sign an agreement in your state while under the age of reason (18?), it isn't enforceable anyway. But, it sounds to me like you wouldn't want to jeopardize a relationship with your mom if she feels that strongly about the issue. Either that or you don't care and are just trying to get money from her. (In that case, the age of reason thingy might work.)

Good luck; this whole thing sounds very strange. Hey, if she wants you to not be in a union, just have her 'buy' you a job at a non-union carrier /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

Just kidding, please don't EVER PFT!
 
That's a little crazy.

I hate to say it, but I'd find an alternate method of funding flight training.

There are a plethora of issues that you really don't have a good understanding of until you enter the profession that many people on the outside wouldn't understand.
 
Hello Flyer,

Reverse psycholgy...tell her you won't be her son unless...and state your terms! (jk ?) That's about what she's doing to you. Maybe if you can show her what's she doing in a different light she'll (better) understand the predicament she's putting you in. Ask her what she would think if a strike was because of AIRLINE & PASSENGER SAFETY. Strikes and safety are often related.

Best of Luck,

JR
 
How very sad.

You said she is mis-informed. What is she basing her opinions on? Has she been a member of a union? Does she understand how the Railway Labor Act works when it comes to airline strikes? How long the negotiating process is way before a strike vote ever enters the picture!

Sounds like she needs to read "Flying the Line".

If she refuses to open her eyes to the facts, and you still want to be a pilot you may have to bite it and pay for your training yourself. If you want to limit your job opportunities to corporate/fractional/non-union that is a very viable option, but consider why you'd be only considering that type of employement. Your mother has some pre-concieved notions that she needs to get educated about

I'm very sorry your mother is acting this way.
 
[ QUOTE ]
No no no, it would be for anywhere I get my flight training. Money actually isn't the issue for her, even though ERAU is pricey. She simply thinks it's dishonorable and ethically wrong or whatever to go on strike.

[/ QUOTE ]

No offense, but your mother is actinging very ignorantly and foolishly. If she won't take the time to learn about your potential career choice or why unions are important to the working class then you shouldn't wouldn't worry too much about her opinions.

Unions aren't the end-all be all answer to every problem but I can guarantee that without them (at least in the airline world) pilots would be making just above minimum wage and working 20 hour duty days.

And anyone who pulls out the "glorified bus driver" comment has absolutely no clue, whatsoever about the life of a professional pilot and in usingthe phrase is only demonstrating their own complete and utter ignorance of the situation.

IN the end I'll second Doug's advice ... find your own way to pay for flight training. Go hang out at the local airport and offer to wash aircraft in exchange for an hour of flight here and there. Then when you can get a line job filling aircraft with gas and start working your way up. It's a time-honored tradition in learning to fly.

And trust me, you're not the first person in the world whose had a parent(s) who didn't want their child to go into flying for (insert reason here). If you want to fly, you'll find a way! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
Sounds like she needs to read "Flying the Line".

[/ QUOTE ]

I second that one. I was kinda just "eh" on pilot unions until I started reading this. Now I'm all for them. The best part is they got someone from OUTSIDE the union (a history professor no less) to write the book, and they WANTED it to tell the bad with the good.

If you can't get her to read the whole thing, at least read it yourself and give her quotes out of it.
 
Darn money-hungry, greedy pilots......... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
Darn money-hungry, greedy pilots.........

[/ QUOTE ]

And you're getting paid how much to surf Jetcareers and not drop bombs on people? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
Darn money-hungry, greedy pilots......... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Darn button-pushing ascot-wearing 'stinkbug' pilots /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Darn money-hungry, greedy pilots......... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Darn button-pushing ascot-wearing 'stinkbug' pilots /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Ascot-wearing? ASCOT-WEARING!!!!!!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

LOL.

Some of the guys we have here that came from F-16s, still always have the scarf or ascot tucked into their flightsuits...hehe. Candyasses.

Then again, I'm no better than the F-16.....in the sense that I arrive over the target with my two whole bombs also.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Either this is flamebait.....

Or you mom is an idiot....

Unions rock. This profession wouldn't be a fraction of what it is now without unions.

What would make your mom hate unions so much?
 
Aww, you know I'm kidding Mike!

They don't make you shave any more often in the -117 community do they?

Speaking of 'off topic', I flew with a guy who used to fly C-119's over VN on psy-ops missions. Hilarious guy to talk to!

"Dis..Is...Radio...Vietnam....Ho....Chi....Minh....has....a...gay....lover...."
 
[ QUOTE ]

What would make your mom hate unions so much?

[/ QUOTE ]

This could go so many ways........... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top