UAL newlywed dies in Colorado crash

Space Monkey

Well-Known Member
Again it’s APC so take it with a grain of salt. Someone claiming that he took off and went east to go circle over a friends house before continuing on course. It would certainly jive more than a guy who got caught in a canyon with no way to climb the surrounding terrain. He had been through there before. Looking at the crashed plane, seems the flaps are partially extended, and one side is more damaged than the other. Could very well be flaps out, to slow down and tighten the turn over the house surrounded by mountains, both looking out, getting too slow, stall/spin. Just a theory, going by the APC rumor. But that certainly sounds more believable than a guy who just takes off and turns straight east and can’t out climb the mountains.

Either way, my heart goes out to their families and friends. Sad situation all around no matter what the cause. :(
Didn't even read past the first sentence, but highlighted that only to say...

"It's CC again, so take it with a freighter load of salt (up to 38%, optimally)... and Anhydrous ammonia."
 
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Jimmy_Norton

Opie killer
Man, so many jaded pilots on here. Flying GA brings you back to when flying was truly fun. Is it more dangerous than flying an airliner? Yes for sure, but most GA accidents are very preventable, such as fuel exhaustion, VFR into IMC, CFIT, etc. The number of GA accidents that are truly unpreventable are very low, and there are plenty of ways to mitigate the risks. I'm not sure how to compare the stats on an equal basis, but I would guess than flying a piston single is about the same danger level as riding a motorcycle.

The ability to drive ten min to the airport, jumping in the airplane, and being in Bar Harbor for dinner less than an hour later is priceless to me. I took the wife on vacation a few weeks ago, and we were able to beat the airlines by a few hours to our destination, and it was a much more pleasant process vs dealing with parking, the TSA, masks etc.

RIP to Costas and Lindsey.
 

Acadia

Well-Known Member
Man, so many jaded pilots on here. Flying GA brings you back to when flying was truly fun. Is it more dangerous than flying an airliner? Yes for sure, but most GA accidents are very preventable, such as fuel exhaustion, VFR into IMC, CFIT, etc. The number of GA accidents that are truly unpreventable are very low, and there are plenty of ways to mitigate the risks. I'm not sure how to compare the stats on an equal basis, but I would guess than flying a piston single is about the same danger level as riding a motorcycle.

The ability to drive ten min to the airport, jumping in the airplane, and being in Bar Harbor for dinner less than an hour later is priceless to me. I took the wife on vacation a few weeks ago, and we were able to beat the airlines by a few hours to our destination, and it was a much more pleasant process vs dealing with parking, the TSA, masks etc.

RIP to Costas and Lindsey.
I don't disagree with this view, but I think it leaves out that our perception of risk as our lives evolve often changes. For many, risks that once seemed very reasonable start to seem unnecessary when others are depending on you (children, older parents, etc). Throw in costs associated with things like GA, and many opt for other endeavours as the benefits no longer strongly outweigh the negatives. That does not mean that risks can't be mitigated reasonably or that others are wrong for taking those risks. I still love the idea of GA, but doubt I will every partake again. I like the idea of motorcycles too, but given that we all share the road with too many bad drivers in cars, I will pass on those odds with my daughter in mind. Plenty of other things excite and interest me that don't have those risks. This is not a commentary on those that decide differently; we all have our own tolerances.
 

USMCmech

Well-Known Member
I don't disagree with this view, but I think it leaves out that our perception of risk as our lives evolve often changes. For many, risks that once seemed very reasonable start to seem unnecessary when others are depending on you (children, older parents, etc). Throw in costs associated with things like GA, and many opt for other endeavours as the benefits no longer strongly outweigh the negatives. That does not mean that risks can't be mitigated reasonably or that others are wrong for taking those risks. I still love the idea of GA, but doubt I will every partake again. I like the idea of motorcycles too, but given that we all share the road with too many bad drivers in cars, I will pass on those odds with my daughter in mind. Plenty of other things excite and interest me that don't have those risks. This is not a commentary on those that decide differently; we all have our own tolerances.
I had to face these decisions when my wife died and left me with 5 young kids.

I won't ride motorcycles until all my kids are older. The risk just isn't worth it, and on a bike the risks are mostly outside my control. 70% of all fatal motorcycle accidents are car hit bike. There is no way for me to know which car is being driven by an idiot on their cell phone. Once my youngest is in high school, I might get a bike again but for now it has to wait.

OTOH, flying is way too much of who I am to give up. I'm still flying light airplanes regularly teaching and just for fun. As a pilot I can control most of the risks involved with GA. Teaching my son to fly is so rewarding way to spend time together.

tempImage2ioD45.jpg
 

Murdoughnut

Well sized member
I had to face these decisions when my wife died and left me with 5 young kids.

I won't ride motorcycles until all my kids are older. The risk just isn't worth it, and on a bike the risks are mostly outside my control. 70% of all fatal motorcycle accidents are car hit bike. There is no way for me to know which car is being driven by an idiot on their cell phone. Once my youngest is in high school, I might get a bike again but for now it has to wait.

OTOH, flying is way too much of who I am to give up. I'm still flying light airplanes regularly teaching and just for fun. As a pilot I can control most of the risks involved with GA. Teaching my son to fly is so rewarding way to spend time together.

View attachment 55892
I gave up GA flying when we were going through (paying for) in vitro. Then when my sons were born, I had this fear of dying before my kids would even be old enough to remember who I was. Then about the time I was ready to fly again, the stress of said kids and wife and work, etc. made it so that I had to take medication that prohibited me from flying.

Recently found out I was eligible for Basic Med and have decided to get back in. I (too) don't like the motorcycle analogy because more often than not the risk is entirely out of your control - as in motorcyclists are often not at fault when things go south. In GA, you're almost always at fault - and I can trust my own decision-making.

I just turned 40 last week and realized that I'm past the point of being overly cautious. Having access to GA during the pandemic would have been terrific - so I'm going back and getting re-upped. Granted, I'm doing it because I have the option of flying my family in an SR20 which meets my demands of traffic avoidance and a chute for night or terrain flying.
 
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milleR

Well-Known Member
I don't like the motorcycle analogy because more often than not the risk is entirely out of your control - as in motorcyclists are often not at fault when things go south. In GA, you're almost always at fault - and I can trust my own decision-making.
Not to pick nits, but I think that's exactly the point he was making.
 

Acadia

Well-Known Member
I had to face these decisions when my wife died and left me with 5 young kids.

I won't ride motorcycles until all my kids are older. The risk just isn't worth it, and on a bike the risks are mostly outside my control. 70% of all fatal motorcycle accidents are car hit bike. There is no way for me to know which car is being driven by an idiot on their cell phone. Once my youngest is in high school, I might get a bike again but for now it has to wait.

OTOH, flying is way too much of who I am to give up. I'm still flying light airplanes regularly teaching and just for fun. As a pilot I can control most of the risks involved with GA. Teaching my son to fly is so rewarding way to spend time together.

View attachment 55892
Thanks for sharing that, and that all sounds completely sound to me. I had different callings long before I discovered aviation at 31. Sailing was always my primary interest, and is also not something I would surrender. Granted I am not taking on high risk offshore trips, but my work wont allow that anyway. For now, happy to cruise my old stomping grounds, which is not a dissimilar parallel from taking a trip in a light aircraft. I turned 50 this year, and if anything I enjoy quiet time on the boat that much more, and likewise it is something I share with my daughter as much as I can. Looking back to home from an anchorage last August:

20200904_173718.jpg
 

Derg

New Arizona, Il Duce/Warlord
Staff member
GA flying is basically the life of a gang. Once your in, you’re in for life. I’m not talking C172 flying either. There’s a lot more fun to be had than what a NACA2412 can offer, unless there’s a set of floats under that Cessna.
Sharks.... JETS.....

(dance moves)
 

WacoFan

Bigly
Yeah, there are a lot of poop-lord operations out there, and you’re spot on about the proficiency side too. I could probably do “okay” in airplane single-engine land despite not having touched anything in that category for...um...like, five years? But that wouldn’t make it a good idea, either. I will say, though, I really do enjoy that category—and I’m also loathe to use it for serious work, to be honest. (And yes, I know that having a second engine isn’t a panacea.)

“Good” FBOs (etc.) that take good care of their airplanes are wonderful creatures. And having seen some of what happens at flight schools I’d be loathe to leaseback an airplane I owned (you would like your firewall damaged, wouldn’t you?) too.
I started at an FBO when I was 15 and was pretty much GM by 18.

We had a flight school (at the time one of the only taildraggers for rent in Houston!) and rental fleet. Anyway, we always tried to have late(r) model type machines. My kink was this though - I kept those machines immaculate. And I used that as a selling point for new students, renters, etc. My pitch was "You know, it's always easier to see some kind of external flaw if your starting point is a clean, well cared for airplane". We had a number of competitors on the field. Our hanger was at the south end of RW 17-35. As planes would depart on 17, particularly 17L, they would pass over usually about 50 to 100 feet up. The bellys of the competitors was nasty. oil caked, etc. Like they just washed the top parts of the airplanes. Then, one of ours would take off and I point out the difference - immaculately clean belly along with the rest of the airplane. I would grab a creeper and a can of varsol damn near every time a plane returned and wipe down the belly if needed (although they didn't through that much oil). The airplanes were cleaned once per day usually, no more than every two days. That was a point of pride for me - I had the nicest, cleanest, most expensive airplanes on the field. We charged more and we got it - because quality and value.
 

Autothrust Blue

Very querulous
I started at an FBO when I was 15 and was pretty much GM by 18.

We had a flight school (at the time one of the only taildraggers for rent in Houston!) and rental fleet. Anyway, we always tried to have late(r) model type machines. My kink was this though - I kept those machines immaculate. And I used that as a selling point for new students, renters, etc. My pitch was "You know, it's always easier to see some kind of external flaw if your starting point is a clean, well cared for airplane". We had a number of competitors on the field. Our hanger was at the south end of RW 17-35. As planes would depart on 17, particularly 17L, they would pass over usually about 50 to 100 feet up. The bellys of the competitors was nasty. oil caked, etc. Like they just washed the top parts of the airplanes. Then, one of ours would take off and I point out the difference - immaculately clean belly along with the rest of the airplane. I would grab a creeper and a can of varsol damn near every time a plane returned and wipe down the belly if needed (although they didn't through that much oil). The airplanes were cleaned once per day usually, no more than every two days. That was a point of pride for me - I had the nicest, cleanest, most expensive airplanes on the field. We charged more and we got it - because quality and value.
“Careful! That grease and grime there is the only thing holding it together!” - an airline, somewhere
 
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