UAL newlywed dies in Colorado crash

JordanD

Honorary Member
These days, if all you ever flew was a newfangled electric jet, I'd say there's a pretty good chance it's been quite some time now since you last thought about such puzzlers as "Density Altitude and Me" or "Can I actually make that climb gradient?" or "Where am I gonna put it down if THE engine quits?"
Usually it’s “ACARS didn’t give me performance numbers, I guess something is wrong.”
 

JordanD

Honorary Member
Pretty sure my local FBO has one of those things.
Was looking at a checkout where I’m at now for the month off. Only thing available is a 40 sommat year old Warrior.
Lol at all you people with things to live for. I’ll be taking the club 172 to Block Island. I’ll post pics.
I’ll be scared of GA now but at the same time want to go race my rusty old car around a track. I don’t get me either.
 

DeltaAlphaNovember

Well-Known Member
I would love to get back into GA flying. I have not flown a single engine in a little over 10 years, but I'd do it again in a heartbeat. My stepdaughter is currently a CFI in Pensacola and we have been talking about getting me current again.
 

Space Monkey

Well-Known Member
Usually it’s “ACARS didn’t give me performance numbers, I guess something is wrong.”
Same thing. Stated differently. Yours in language a 121 driver would understand.

The trouble in that language would be the second part... "I guess something is wrong."

If something is wrong, don't fly. Don't assume that the "wrongness" is a function of a small airplane. Big or small, the airfoils all work the same way. It's only the cockpit distractions that differ.
 

roundout

Bus Driver
Anyone familiar with this area?
Very unforgiving. Extremely unforgiving east with only a short distance to climb.

That's absolutely fair. If I were a 121 ATP, I wouldn't touch another G/A ever again.
This is me, especially after looking at the "Always get a Prebuy" thread. I don't want a plane. I don't want to rent a plane. I don't want to pay for a plane. I don't want to touch a plane if I'm not getting paid.

I keep my CFI current, though I'm beginning to wonder why.
 

GypsyPilot

Well-Known Member
Wow, you guys are killing me.

ADSB traffic, FISB weather, engine monitoring with integrated fuel totalizers, all electric glass instruments with backup power, comprehensive internet briefing products, and onboard navigation/moving maps on tablets that include W&B, fuel burn and performance calculations with hazard/terrain alerting.

You guys act like it’s 1920. Use common sense, know the capabilities of the airplane and don’t put yourself in a box. It ain’t rocket science.
And that has exactly what to do with high altitude mountain flying?
 

gotWXdagain

Polished Member
And that has exactly what to do with high altitude mountain flying?
I mean going flying in the mountains has everything to do with doing the bookwork to make sure your plane can keep air between itself and the terrain you’re asking it to fly over.
 

BigZ

Well-Known Member
Not directly, but the engine monitor and oil analysis will give a heads up on incipient trouble and greatly reduce the risk of it just quitting.
Eh. Had two Yak-52s of the early 90s vintage, sent both back to Russia. One had 70 hrs TT, another 150ish. First one cracked a rod on a take-off here for a ferry flight to be boxed up, seized that M14 solid. Thankfully there was enough runway to land straight ahead. Second one did exact same thing 30 or so hrs later during a run up, that one had a heavier 3 blade MT prop on, engine rpm suddenly dropped to zero, prop sheared the shaft between the gearbox and main bearing and kept on spinning. Engine cracked the same rod.
Our best guess is whoever originally imported these things had no clue how to treat a planetary gear drive M14s, resulting in numerous micro hydraulic locks on that lower cylinder, fatiguing the rods. No oil analysis or engine monitor would show that. I’m just thankful neither of those two resulted in loss of life or airframes.

Don’t get me wrong, oil analysis is a great thing (I’m a blackstone fan), it just wont show you everything. And engine monitors- you need to know what you are looking at and what its trying to tell you.
 

GypsyPilot

Well-Known Member
I mean going flying in the mountains has everything to do with doing the bookwork to make sure your plane can keep air between itself and the terrain you’re asking it to fly over.
Yes. Didn’t see that in the list of wiz bang technology that my post made reference to however.

Also, flying in the Colorado mountains has more to it than reading a book. Even flying jets in those mountains for all four seasons, I relied very heavily upon being mentored, excellent training, and my own past experiences. Lots of flatland pilots have died in Colorado thinking reading a book or some nice technology would keep them safe.

Not saying that has anything to do with this accident. But anyone who doesn’t think flying single engine pistons in Western Colorado is very high threat has no clue.
 

BlueMoon

Well-Known Member
Condolences to all of you who knew him.

This is one of my big concerns about getting involved in general aviation again. I think the risk to my career and/or life is a little higher than I’m willing to accept at this stage in my life.

This isn’t meant as a judgment on what happened, purely some thoughts that came to mind. GA is “an entirely different kind of flying, all together” and I can’t see myself wanting to spend the time and money to achieve the level of competency where I’d feel safe. My biggest peeve as an instructor was the weekend warrior who didn’t treat the hobby with the professionalism it deserved and made things complicated for the rest of us.

Again, before anyone jumps on me, this isn’t meant as a criticism of the deceased. We literally have no idea what happened, and I’m always a “wait for the report” kind of guy. Just my opinion about GA in general.
Exactly why I left GA again after briefly hopping back in. I couldn’t do it enough to be at a proficiency level I was comfortable with.

Unfortunately, that was partly because of the clubs handling of a maintenance issue I disagreed with and refused to fly said plane until it was handled properly. By the time it was fixed I hadn’t flown in over a month and didn’t feel comfortable going up by myself and I just asked to leave.

There were other issues too, but that was the final straw
 

jtrain609

Uniting the black vote.
Nothing but the obvious improvement in awareness, but then again, the people on the last page weren’t kvetching about mountain flying specifically either, just terrified of little airplanes like my next door neighbor.
Meh, it's not that, it's the amount of risk that you're comfortable with.

When you compare general aviation to things people do in their average day, it's significantly more dangerous than, say, driving a car.

.

That's not to say that flying airplanes isn't worthwhile, just that some people aren't willing to accept the risk.
 

Autothrust Blue

Very querulous
Exactly why I left GA again after briefly hopping back in. I couldn’t do it enough to be at a proficiency level I was comfortable with.

Unfortunately, that was partly because of the clubs handling of a maintenance issue I disagreed with and refused to fly said plane until it was handled properly. By the time it was fixed I hadn’t flown in over a month and didn’t feel comfortable going up by myself and I just asked to leave.

There were other issues too, but that was the final straw
Yeah, there are a lot of poop-lord operations out there, and you’re spot on about the proficiency side too. I could probably do “okay” in airplane single-engine land despite not having touched anything in that category for...um...like, five years? But that wouldn’t make it a good idea, either. I will say, though, I really do enjoy that category—and I’m also loathe to use it for serious work, to be honest. (And yes, I know that having a second engine isn’t a panacea.)

“Good” FBOs (etc.) that take good care of their airplanes are wonderful creatures. And having seen some of what happens at flight schools I’d be loathe to leaseback an airplane I owned (you would like your firewall damaged, wouldn’t you?) too.
 

pwttogfk

Well-Known Member
Yes. Didn’t see that in the list of wiz bang technology that my post made reference to however.

Also, flying in the Colorado mountains has more to it than reading a book. Even flying jets in those mountains for all four seasons, I relied very heavily upon being mentored, excellent training, and my own past experiences. Lots of flatland pilots have died in Colorado thinking reading a book or some nice technology would keep them safe.

Not saying that has anything to do with this accident. But anyone who doesn’t think flying single engine pistons in Western Colorado is very high threat has no clue.
I can’t agree more. Some of the most terrifying flights I’ve had have been doing tailwheel instruction with folks who watched YouTube prior to their lesson.
 

FlyingAccountant

Well-Known Member
I tried to replicate this scenario the as best I could in MSFS. Bonanza, two average sized people, full load fuel(guessing) and I couldn't get above 10,200 by the end of that canyon. He did 1000 feet better than that according to the track. Pretty scary, once you're committed to that canyon in a Bonanza, you're not getting out.
 
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