Type Ratings
- Thread starter Bolo
- Start date
gne in prog
Well-Known Member
^ what he said. Stay away.
ryan1234
Desensitized Member
Are you talking about initially or as an upgrade?
Bolo
Well-Known Member
This would be an initial type for a Lear. I was thinking it could come in handy in the future.
Guy
Well-Known Member
The situation I'm most familiar with is one that required the pilot to stay with the operator or pay back a percentage of the expense of the type rating. The contract was based on months worked following the type rating. E.G. if the pilot stayed for 36 months, they could leave without owing anything. If the pilot left after 12 months, they would owe 24/36 (2/3) of the cost of the type rating. However, as I understand it, there is difficulty in enforcing such contracts and the operator usually will not pursue the matter for long. Although I'm sure there are many variables that would make that different with another operator or in another state.
C150J
Well-Known Member
I would not recommend paying for a type rating unless the initial pay is substantially higher than average (Southwest). Keep in mind that the type itself isn't worth much, might require "operator specific" training, and the risk associated with buying a type only to find out the company is ridding itself of that make/model.
Also, what is your experience level?
Also, what is your experience level?
Bolo
Well-Known Member
Thanks for all the good feedback folks. I have 700/200 and this would be my first type. It's a small operation and I know most of the people there because I used to rent one of the planes in their flight school. Theyre good folk. My best friend got hired with them a few months back and he likes it so he's seeing what he can do for me. Just met with one of the captains today and he wants to give me a shot. The only possible problem he forsees is insurance, but hes going to check the numbers on it. They have a fleet of 3 lears and they fly the hell out of them. The initial pay is 150/day and they typically fly 4/5 days a week which would be doable for me because I don't have a family to support or loans to pay off.
ryan1234
Desensitized Member
It's sort of a tough spot. $150/day is definitely a low figure for flying as a Lear F/O... especially if you're paying to get a type before you work there. Usually 135 companies like to hire people who already have types in the aircraft or very similar aircraft. Are you talking about a PIC or SIC type rating? If it's an SIC type... the 135 training/checkride that they provide should be good enough to satisfy that without needing to spend any additional money. Insurance requirements may be the hurdle for flying at 700 hours... they may want you to have a PIC type rating... not sure. Tough to say without knowing the specifics of the company, etc. Either way good luck!
C150J
Well-Known Member
With 700/200, you also need to make sure that they don't fly a lot of Wyvern-rated trips (google "Wyvern Minimums"). Upgrade to PIC could take a long, long time with such low time (how many hours a year do they fly?). Definitely not trying to rain on your parade - I just want to make sure you're fully aware of the issues with flying 135 with under about 2,500 hours.
Bolo
Well-Known Member
They want at least an SIC type, but I originally thought the PIC could be a better investment since I do want to stay 135, but I could be wrong. I asked the captain about the training and he said that they want the type and unfortunately it doesnt look like that's going to change.
They fly between 800-1000 a year. He mentioned theyre at a gold standard for argus right now and that my hours might come into play there but he's pretty certain that's not a problem because all of the captains are hight time. The upgrade time is really high. You're not raining on my parade at all. Trying to weigh the pros and cons and this is all great info. None of which I knew before so this is great!
Bolo
Well-Known Member
It's pax only. The do fly the occasional late night organ runs as well. Just to pick your brain a lil, what questions does it raise?
Bolo said:
Are you sure that the pilots are flying that much, or is that number of hours the planes are flying? Most charter operations, at least with reasonable work rules, will see pilots max out at more like 600 hours a year, simply because a lot of time is spent waiting at destinations for the pax to return. To get 800 or 1,000 hours would mean that the pilots are flying every day, with less than minimal time off. Coupled with (relatively) low pay and it starts to sound like an operator with a less than desirable Q.O.L. I might be reading too much into things, but that number of hours doesn't sound right to me. :dunno:
Bolo
Well-Known Member
You could be right. I asked my friend how much he flew with them sobfar and when calculated it those were the round about numbers I came up with. What I also didnt take into consideration is that they're short FO's so he's probably flying more than normal right now.
lr31apilot
Well-Known Member
Hey Bolo,
Your attitude is awesome but this is a bad deal. A lear type from a real training facility is going to cost the same if you do a PIC or SIC type ride..... WAY TOO MUCH. It will be somewhere between $10,000 to $14,000 before you pay for 2 weeks of hotel and food for yourself.
It's the companies responsibility to train pilots beyond the commercial level. As Ryan1234 said, $150 a day is really really low for any lear and insanely low if they are asking you to pay for your own training.
Do they have in-house training by any chance? If they pay for your training, in house or out, I would be alot more understanding on the pay because you are a lower time guy. Then, after a year or whatever training contract they make you sign, you can triple your daily rate on them or take your "time in type" and go somewhere else.
I think the moral of the story is paying for your own type rating undercuts your fellow pilots, makes owners and management think pilots will do anything for the pleasure of flying them, and hurts the industry as a whole...
Again, I think you have a really good attitude and will do well.
Good Luck!
Your attitude is awesome but this is a bad deal. A lear type from a real training facility is going to cost the same if you do a PIC or SIC type ride..... WAY TOO MUCH. It will be somewhere between $10,000 to $14,000 before you pay for 2 weeks of hotel and food for yourself.
It's the companies responsibility to train pilots beyond the commercial level. As Ryan1234 said, $150 a day is really really low for any lear and insanely low if they are asking you to pay for your own training.
Do they have in-house training by any chance? If they pay for your training, in house or out, I would be alot more understanding on the pay because you are a lower time guy. Then, after a year or whatever training contract they make you sign, you can triple your daily rate on them or take your "time in type" and go somewhere else.
I think the moral of the story is paying for your own type rating undercuts your fellow pilots, makes owners and management think pilots will do anything for the pleasure of flying them, and hurts the industry as a whole...
Again, I think you have a really good attitude and will do well.
Good Luck!
Maurus
The Great Gazoo
$150/day is definitely below industry standards. Especially for pax operations. Also if you somehow fly 1000 hours a year you are really getting screwed with that pay.
Also never pay for a type unless the job pays well above industry average. Even then I would be hesitant.
I suppose this is better than that place that pays their FO's $150 / week in the Lear 35.
Also never pay for a type unless the job pays well above industry average. Even then I would be hesitant.
I suppose this is better than that place that pays their FO's $150 / week in the Lear 35.
Bolo
Well-Known Member
Thanks samstanton! It looks as if I couldn't afford the gig anyway. There would really be no way of me realistically making my money back even if they took a cut of my pay, it wouldn't be enough for me to live on on an on-call basis and not being able to budget. A huge gamble at best. I have an interview with them tomorrow and have a bunch of questions for them. At the very least it can used as a learning experience as to what to look for in a 135 operation. Thank you all for your help!
TwinCessnaDriver
Well-Known Member
Good luck on your interview! Tell them that you will accept $300 a day if they pay for your type. If they say no....well a Cleveland Steamer comes to mind.
Really though, you have the right idea. Even if the job isn't right for you it sounds like you are planning on using the interview process as a learning tool. Kudos!!
Post back after your interview!
Really though, you have the right idea. Even if the job isn't right for you it sounds like you are planning on using the interview process as a learning tool. Kudos!!
Post back after your interview!