Turbine VFR Traffic Patterns

C150J

Well-Known Member
If you were instructed to maintain left-closed traffic, do you have a bench mark of how wide your pattern should be in a Part 25 aircraft? I'm trying to get a feel for best practices, as I've seen/done everything from a 1NM base-to-final to much wider. Obviously, the goal is to be stabilized and safe. So, how far away should your downwind leg ideally be?
 
Judging from the patterns I see here in the 15/72s I would expect a leg to be in excess of 10nm.
 
I try to turn at the 45 degree abeam point with a 1500 foot pattern. Depending on how "B52ish" my pattern is that day, I say I usually turn about a 2 to 3 mile final.
 
Judging from the patterns I see here in the 15/72s I would expect a leg to be in excess of 10nm.

It cracks me up when I cut inside a 172 in my caravan (with tower's approval of course).

"Martex, can you make a short approach?" Silly question ;)
 
1 nm abeam, turn on your approach turn abeam the numbers.....at least thats how real men fly the pattern :)
 
It cracks me up when I cut inside a 172 in my caravan (with tower's approval of course).

"Martex, can you make a short approach?" Silly question ;)

There should be no way that is possible unless tower asked them to extend their downwind. 2 things I hate at my airport. Bomber patterns and people flying right traffic(at an all left traffic airport).
 
It cracks me up when I cut inside a 172 in my caravan (with tower's approval of course).

"Martex, can you make a short approach?" Silly question ;)

Lol, yep, that's us here at AirEx.

"AirEx 51, short approach, long landing approved," then I dive it in and clear off in 1000' or less.
 
It cracks me up when I cut inside a 172 in my caravan (with tower's approval of course).

"Martex, can you make a short approach?" Silly question ;)

I got the coveted "wow, nice job" praise from Tower in DFW last month. I felt like a puppy getting a a pat on the head :)
 
The real determinants for how wide you need to be are: airspeed, bank angle and winds.

The higher the airspeed required in the final turn, the wider you will need to be to make that turn happen, just like in a level turn. A level turn at 300 knots is a heck of a lot wider than a level turn at 70 knots. Tgray would probably know off the top of his head, but the formula escapes me at the moment. I think turn radius is proportional to the square of velocity, though, so a 200 knot turn will be 4 times larger than a 100 knot turn. But I don't have my books with me and I'm pullin' that out of you know where... so take with a huge grain of salt.

The reverse is true of bank angle. The larger the bank, the smaller the turn. Most airplanes I know aim for about a 30 degree bank final turn, but the T-6's and T-37's I used to fly had a 30 degree desired, 45 maximum for the final turn. I think the fighters aim for 45 degrees (but I don't know if they have a max... 60 maybe?). The -135 has kind of an accepted max in the final turn of 30. So that has a big effect.

Lastly, winds. If the winds are blowing towards the runway, you need to be farther away (assuming you are planning for the same bank angles in your turn). If the winds are blowing you farther from the runway, then displace closer.

Now all of this is true if you are planning on making one turn from downwind to final, with virtually no base leg. If you are planning on a significant base leg, then you've got another variable to work with: you can adjust the length of the base leg to make up for any of the other variables.
 
Ooohh.. Looky what I found! An internet tool to calculate all kinds of properties regarding turns (turn rate, turn range, g, stall speed in a turn, etc.)

I thought I was right, above, about turn range being proportional to velocity squared. It is... you can run some numbers with this thing yourself.

http://www.csgnetwork.com/aircraftturninfocalc.html
 
Back
Top