Training

[Wardogg]

Has anyone used the Norton Aviation Training where they come to you for the training/type rating?

Looking for the goods and bads and things to expect.

It seems to me there would be things you could do in the simulator that you couldn't do in the airplane, which is where all the training takes place.

 

[T/O w/FSII]

Good, you probably learn more.

Bad. No insurance company will accept it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Wardogg]

Good, you probably learn more.

Bad. No insurance company will accept it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

How do they operate then? Are owners just not telling the insurance companies?

 

[N3901C]

Good, you probably learn more.

Bad. No insurance company will accept it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I guess some insurance will accept you. I did some work for a company that used Norton instructors and type ride in the airplane and they had insurance.

 

[T/O w/FSII]

How do they operate then? Are owners just not telling the insurance companies?

What kind of airplane first? 90% of the time they need a “approved simulator” on the training program. If the airplane cost under 5 million they are problem lying to the insurance companies from what I have seen.

Or the applicant is well qualified or SIC only.

 

[pwttogfk]

I think it really depends on your liability level. Below $10M or so and you can get away with in-airplane. $25M and above are no way. In between..there’s a chance.

 

[T/O w/FSII]

I think it really depends on your liability level. Below $10M or so and you can get away with in-airplane. $25M and above are no way. In between..there’s a chance.

Also the operation. Charter? No. P91 SIC? Ok. P91 owner flying single pilot? The dude better have some experience and at least 1 other type or it’s a 99% no.

This was a problem for my owner operators back on 2018. I’m sure it’s only gotten worse since


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Inverted25]

Also the operation. Charter? No. P91 SIC? Ok. P91 owner flying single pilot? The dude better have some experience and at least 1 other type or it’s a 99% no.

This was a problem for my owner operators back on 2018. I’m sure it’s only gotten worse since


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My last job we did in airplane. Insurnace required minimum of 6 hrs of dual in airplane before the checkride done in airplane. We flew charter. I would say that it was good to do the maneuvers in the airplane including flying it around single engine and doing real single engine go arounds. The bad would be that you can’t simulate safely a lot of the failures that you can in the sim. You try to make it the failures as realistic as you can but your also trying not to red screen it in real life at the same time


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Wardogg]

What kind of airplane first? 90% of the time they need a “approved simulator” on the training program. If the airplane cost under 5 million they are problem lying to the insurance companies from what I have seen.

Or the applicant is well qualified or SIC only.

Also the operation. Charter? No. P91 SIC? Ok. P91 owner flying single pilot? The dude better have some experience and at least 1 other type or it’s a 99% no.

This was a problem for my owner operators back on 2018. I’m sure it’s only gotten worse since


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well they only offer it for the Eclipse 500/550 and the Phenom 100/300 so Ill just say it is one of those.

It's a part 91, professionally flown, managed aircraft. Owner does not fly. Norton asks to be placed on the insurance just for the days of training.

 

[CFI A&P]

Not too many 91 departments that I'm familiar with have insurance that will cover training in the airplane. The insurance industry has been taking a beating lately from hull losses, and if anything they're tightening up policies. Many have implemented new restrictions on SICs (no more logbook signoffs, must go to a 142 sim school). In fact, some of those operators even prohibited doing landings for currency in the aircraft, but insurance granted waivers for that as the only form of training allowed, and that was unique during the pandemic.

I can't imagine doing V1 cuts in the airplane or any other simulated emergency would be lower risk compared to a sim center. Botching a maneuver and generating the red screen on the sim is a non-event, solved by a couple of mouse clicks, but something going awry in the airplane will generate a mountain of paperwork.

 

[Wardogg]

Not too many 91 departments that I'm familiar with have insurance that will cover training in the airplane. The insurance industry has been taking a beating lately from hull losses, and if anything they're tightening up policies. Many have implemented new restrictions on SICs (no more logbook signoffs, must go to a 142 sim school). In fact, some of those operators even prohibited doing landings for currency in the aircraft, but insurance granted waivers for that as the only form of training allowed, and that was unique during the pandemic.

I can't imagine doing V1 cuts in the airplane or any other simulated emergency would be lower risk compared to a sim center. Botching a maneuver and generating the red screen on the sim is a non-event, solved by a couple of mouse clicks, but something going awry in the airplane will generate a mountain of paperwork.

I hear ya. But the company isn't out of business so someone is using them. Regularly enough they are still operating and profiting. So they're either getting coverage or no one is telling their insurance.

 

[pwttogfk]

I hear ya. But the company isn't out of business so someone is using them. Regularly enough they are still operating and profiting. So they're either getting coverage or no one is telling their insurance.

The key here is “91 departments.” I know plenty of owner operators using in-airplane training. Heck, I do some of that myself. The paychecks are good for mentoring. But it’s pretty much all with owner-operators running way lower liability limits than any properly run corporate flight department should be using.