To go...or not to go?

badtransam97

Well-Known Member
Well I need some advice here. After researching the forums for close to a year now, I still dont know which path to take. Reason being is, some of my family members have offered to help out with about a quarter of the cost of the 90 day program, with the rest left up to me getting a loan. Right now I have a steady full time job that makes about 25K/yr. and I am working on my inst. rating and have 100hrs.TT. I am driving about an hour each way to the airport now on days when I can get a plane and am not worn out from work! I feel that this FBO route is the "safest" way since it is pay as you go , but I just feel like its going to take forever and I will not have the amount of multi time that ATP gives, plus there is no multi within 100 miles of here to rent!...so I would have to go somewhere to add that on. On the other hand if I went to ATP, I would get all the ratings and have alot more multi time, but at the cost of having a loan to pay back. I am 25 years old and I hear all these guys who already have all their ratings and jobs and that is one reason I feel the need to go to an academy type place to just get it all done! I hope some of you guys could give me some insight on what you would do because I really havent found a situation in the searches that was quite like mine...the area I happen to be stuck living in really doesnt help someone who wants to fly because there just isnt any oppportunites for multi engine rental or people wanting to fly singles for that matter. Well any advice is appreaicated!
 

aloft

New Member
There is no hurry man, no one's hiring right now. Do the pay-as-you-go route, you'll save yourself--and your family--tons of cash. When you're ready for your multi ticket, go to somewhere like Ari-Ben or SkyMates, do your multi training there, then buy a block of 100 hrs with all the cash you saved by not giving it to ATP.

ATP was a good value 6-7 years ago when it was in the $30-35k pricerange, but now that it's twice that, for the same training, same amount of hours, it's just a high-priced ripoff.
 

N826AW

Snooki's Baby Daddy
I would think twice about taking out a $60k loan and returning to a $25k a year job. Your loan payment is going to account for 25% of your gross earnings.
 

SatelliteBeachPilot

Well-Known Member
There is no hurry man, no one's hiring right now. Do the pay-as-you-go route, you'll save yourself--and your family--tons of cash. When you're ready for your multi ticket, go to somewhere like Ari-Ben or SkyMates, do your multi training there, then buy a block of 100 hrs with all the cash you saved by not giving it to ATP.

ATP was a good value 6-7 years ago when it was in the $30-35k pricerange, but now that it's twice that, for the same training, same amount of hours, it's just a high-priced ripoff.

Isn't fuel about twice as much now too?
 

BronxATP

Well-Known Member
Let me give you a few words of advice. Go the FBO route. I went to ATP to do my training back in Feb of this year. I was part way through my PPL training and decided not to continue due to the fact that I could not see myself paying a monthly loan payment of $700+ for a job that was not guaranteed after training. Too bad I did not realize that before I attended. Luckily, I only spent 12K of 70k that I originally borrowed.

In addition I went back to my former job which pays 60k/yr and now I pay as I go through my local FBO. Sure, it's going to be a lot longer but I'm only 29 and have until 65 to get to he airlines. I want to enjoy the adventure that comes with attaining all my ratings. Not rush through it. It is tough not to have tunnel vision, especially when going through an academy such as ATP.

As everyone else on here will tell you, this industry is cyclical. This is just a downturn and the industry will rebound. Patience is definitely a virtue. If you want to become a professional pilot, you must learn to accept "delays". ATP is an impressive operation and I was privaledged to be part of a remarkable program for such a short time. However, I do not regret my decision because in the end I know I will acheive my goal. To put another perspective on this; "What do they call the last person to graduate medical school?...........Doctor;)

Hope this helps.
 

meyers9163

Well-Known Member
Isn't fuel about twice as much now too?
So that justifies ATP charing 60k for IRA-MEI when you can do it at the FBO for 30k? :) Makes sense to me.

Well said Bronx.... Have nothing to add about that. I will say one thing. Perhaps get your IRA and finish that. Get your CSEL and then maybe if you have the time I would recommend going to atp and doing the CMEL. When you have that done you can then do the all inclusive CFI program and get that done. Really after your IRA its downhil. Its timebuilding and getting those commercials out of the way. I highly recommend doing your IRA and getting your CSEL and then maybe think about atp for the CMEL add on and CFI program. In that regards you cant beat the price or time frame.
 

badtransam97

Well-Known Member
Thanks guys for the replies..I had pretty much thought I should just tough it out and stay with the FBO, but I just wanted some other opinions. I guess I can do like yall said and do an add-on multi and then find me a job instructing for someone like ATP where I can add up the multi time..ha!
 

surfCRQ

Well-Known Member
Wait till you are sitting at an interview and they ask you if you ever borke a FAR. Then look them straight in the eye and tell them that all the multi time you built at ATP was under the hood. Yeah you wore a hood for all those 4 hour cross countries. How come everybody Ive met that went to ATP got about 50 hours less than advertised. As I type this I am seeing an ad in the upper right corner that states "190 hours multiengine time"
 

Clocks

Well-Known Member
Wait till you are sitting at an interview and they ask you if you ever borke a FAR. Then look them straight in the eye and tell them that all the multi time you built at _________ was under the hood.
Fill in the blank with the name of any multi time building place.

For the OP there is no reason to spend extra money on any "get it done quick" program. Lots of regional pilots have been or will be furloughed. You need to not only finish your training but also build enough hours to be competitive in a job market that is going to be flooded with pilots who already have hundreds of hours flying RJs. The minimums are going to be much higher than what we've seen recently.

My advice would be to set a goal to finish your training in a timeline that is financially reasonable for you. If you can afford to pay for your commercial/multi/CFIs by next spring great. If you have to stretch it out even further you really wont be in bad shape. Start working as a CFI by the end of next year and you'll be setting yourself up to get hired in 2010 and in a great position financially. Pay ATP $60k to finish quick and you'll be setting yourself up to get hired in...probably 2010.
 

DL31082

Well-Known Member
Not to defend ATP at all because that 190 multi on their website is really misleading, but they give a break down of where you get the 190hrs. Most people come out with around 140hrs in the actual airplane, the other 50hr is in the Frasca FTD. Thats why is seems like everyone comes up short.
 

meyers9163

Well-Known Member
I thought that FTD time didn't count toward TT--I don't count it-but then again I am not racing to get into a regional ASAP.
You are right... It doesnt count towards TT by any means. THUS you get roughly 100-135 hours of ME time. In which Ariben and Skymates use to charge only 10k and less for a package in which you could build 100 hours of as well. Many options out there to get 100 hours of ME.
 

BillH

New Member
Well... get your commercial MEL and make a lot of friends at an FBO who can hook you up to right seat for insurance reasons. Better yet, win the lottery and buy your own seneca II and fly it all over the place.
 

SpiraMirabilis

Possible Subversive
This may change when the next cyclical upturn occurs but at this point anyone who goes to ATP needs to have their head examined, unless youre rich enough that it doesn't matter to you either way.
 

SoonerAv8r

Well-Known Member
For what it's worth...

I just finished the ACP last month.

My overall thoughts are:

A. I'm glad I did it
B. I did it for the Multi-Engine time in far superior aircraft than many other schools
C. I didn't do it to fast track to a regional, I did it to become a CFI quickly.
D. I got real cross country experience.

Were there other options.....you bet

Would I do it again.....In a heartbeat!!

just my .02
 

SpiraMirabilis

Possible Subversive
A lot of ATP's Seminoles are pieces of crap (Many of the 79 models.) I distinctly remember one that would immediately enter an uncommanded roll if you let go of the yoke. If you got to use only the newer ones then thats lucky for you.
 

meyers9163

Well-Known Member
A lot of ATP's Seminoles are pieces of crap (Many of the 79 models.) I distinctly remember one that would immediately enter an uncommanded roll if you let go of the yoke. If you got to use only the newer ones then thats lucky for you.
Hell I had one engine in the brand new seminole cough on me dramatically during a go around once. Literally thought I had lost one on it. I've had as many issues with the new ones as old. Lets remember all FBOs and places have great planes and bad ones... much like ATP etc.
 
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