Time on position to check out at a larger facility?

GnW

New Member
How long does it take to check out on a position?

At a larger facility. Say you need to check out on 5 RADAR positions to hit CPC at an 11 or 12 facility. How much "scope time" do you generally get to certify on a position? If you're making improvements and are almost there, do you get some leeway or is it a cut-and-dry "you're fired" if you can't certify in the maximum allotted time?

It would seem, to me, that if someone is improving and has a couple positions under their belt that they would be given some extra time to certify rather than starting over with a fresh body? But that probably makes too much sense for the FAA and isnt the case :whatever:
 

ATLTRACON

MODERATOR
Re: How long does it take to check out on a position?

At a larger facility. Say you need to check out on 5 RADAR positions to hit CPC at an 11 or 12 facility. How much "scope time" do you generally get to certify on a position? I can only tell you what has happened at A80. Trainees get around 200 hours (double what someone with experience gets) and EVERY one of them was either given an extension of 150+ hours because none of them were going to make it. Over half have been terminated anyway, and this is on two sectors that if they were not in this building, would be lvl 5-6 combined with their respective towers. the facility went so far as to try to re-split A80 into two facilities so they would make it, afte rthe FFAA spent millions combining them originally.If you're making improvements and are almost there, do you get some leeway or is it a cut-and-dry "you're fired" if you can't certify in the maximum allotted time? If you are not able to be certified at 100% of your hours then you will go in front of a training review board and they either will or won't give you more hours. Most get the extra time, but so far even that has not been enough.

It would seem, to me, that if someone is improving and has a couple positions under their belt that they would be given some extra time to certify rather than starting over with a fresh body stop using common sense? But that probably makes too much sense for the FAA and isnt the case :whatever:
 

Prino

Well-Known Member
Re: How long does it take to check out on a position?

how many positions do you guys have at A80? i know you guys are getting at least one more guy pretty soon up there, hes going through RTF...ive always been pretty curious how many of the people i see come through there actually certify. its really hard to imagine the majority does unfortunately
 

ATLTRACON

MODERATOR
Re: How long does it take to check out on a position?

how many positions do you guys have at A80? i know you guys are getting at least one more guy pretty soon up there, hes going through RTF...ive always been pretty curious how many of the people i see come through there actually certify. its really hard to imagine the majority does unfortunately
Total positions - 39, give or take a few

split into three "Lines"

  1. You either work ATL dept. MCN, CSG, and ATL arrival or
  2. ATL dept. MCN,CSG and ATL satellites or
  3. ATL Arrival and ATL satellites
I work everything but MCN and CSG. I added dept. cause it's fairly cut and dry and a nice change from the norm, plus I work the mids (again tonight) so it's nice to know your dept. stuff.
 

Prino

Well-Known Member
Re: How long does it take to check out on a position?

and how many do you have to be checked out on to be cpc?
 

GnW

New Member
Re: How long does it take to check out on a position?

Total positions - 39, give or take a few

split into three "Lines"

  1. You either work ATL dept. MCN, CSG, and ATL arrival or
  2. ATL dept. MCN,CSG and ATL satellites or
  3. ATL Arrival and ATL satellites
I work everything but MCN and CSG. I added dept. cause it's fairly cut and dry and a nice change from the norm, plus I work the mids (again tonight) so it's nice to know your dept. stuff.

What's the complexity when comparing to ZBW (as far as airspace is concerned)? I checked out as an RPO in Alpha, Bravo, and Charlie (pretty much the same requirements to check out as Stage I... minus the MVAs, freqs, and DMEs... everything else is the same. Hell, they even made us do CBIs
)
 

Delta Romeo

New Member
At ATL Tower (which is an ATC-12), we have 12 positions (5 locals, 3 grounds, 1 clearance delivery, 2 ground meters, and a cab coordinator position). You need to be certified on 100% to be CPC. After being checked out on about 3 - 4, they usually start using you for OT... occassionally. We have had many folks VRA, CTI, and OTS all certify over the past 2 years. Most do it fully in approximately a year, some quicker. We have had folks who have "washed out," including some who were CPCs at other FAA facilities who transferred in. However, since this new hiring stuff started a couple of years back, everyone who has not succeeded has been given the opportunity to move themselves (personal expense) to other facilities of the FAAs offering (most were really happy with the opportunities provided to them...some locations that come to minds are St. Thomas, Tri-Cities, TN, Tallahassee, and I think one was Allentown or somewhere close to his family).

ATTITUDE IS EVERYTHING. Please do not show up at your facility with the "I know it all and don't want to learn anything" mentality. This is the quickest way to be shown the door. Those who are not doing well currently at ATL all have this attitude in common. Come in with an open minds and a willingness to learn and you will be recieved in a much better light!

And while ATLTRACON has said he's being worked to death with OT at A80 (our approach control facility), I'd bet my right arm that he's on the voluntary OT list. I have not been assigned an OT shift since February, but there's plenty for those who volunteer (I have taken a couple since then to help others who really needed the day off but had it assigned, but this was wholly my decison.....it has not been assigned)!
 

ATLTRACON

MODERATOR
And while ATLTRACON has said he's being worked to death with OT at A80 (our approach control facility), I'd bet my right arm that he's on the voluntary OT list. I have not been assigned an OT shift since February, but there's plenty for those who volunteer (I have taken a couple since then to help others who really needed the day off but had it assigned, but this was wholly my decison.....it has not been assigned)!
you sir are incorrect. I am on the no OT list.

CJ
 

SoonerATC

Well-Known Member
This is a related question. CJ, Queeno - given the rate of hiring going on right now, do you anticipate favorable opportunities for transfering in the next 3-5 years? My concern is that when I get CPC and want to transfer closer to home, the vacancies at those facilities will be filled by new hires rather than through bids.

Am I basically going to be stuck at my first facility for the next decade?
 

Delta Romeo

New Member
Sooner,
I would say that would depend on where they send you for your first facility. If you go to a lower level tower or approach control, then its not too hard to move up. If they send you to a busier tower/apch facility that is really short staffed (MCO, ATL, A80, LAX, DFW, TPA, MIA, JFK, etc), or a Center, you will proabbly be there for a long, long time - maybe forever.

There are always vacancies advertised. Go look at http://jobs.faa.gov/Allfaajobs.htm, and search 2152 for the seies number (thats the series number for ATC jobs). They usulally update this on Tuesday and Thursadys. Its a very dynamic list.

Where have you been assigned, and where do you want to go?
 

coops2k

New Member
I work at a center, I have heard of people called into the office around their 364 day and given their walking papers. I can not remember hearing of anyone getting extra time, but I don't really follow that. I had a trainee and we talked about getting her extra hours, and may of added 25 hours, can't remember, but it doesn't matter she made it. I have even heard of people washing out on their last couple of sectors.

As for time to become a CPC, we have one who made it in 2 years and some in their 3 year. That is 6 sectors, which has an Radar & D-side. Other area have more sectors and will take longer.
 

coops2k

New Member
any idea why?
Might be a very busy sector, or one that works a lot of non-radar.
Might not be able to understand working 2 jets with a 200kts difference in speed and you have to put the fast one behind the slow one.
Who knows it could be 1000 different things
 

Philip

New Member
Might be a very busy sector, or one that works a lot of non-radar.
Might not be able to understand working 2 jets with a 200kts difference in speed and you have to put the fast one behind the slow one.
Who knows it could be 1000 different things
Hrm. Who knows.
 
Top