Thought on a Cirrus G3 or Twinstar for Midwest Air Taxi?

theyoungs02

New Member
Looking for thoughts on which aircraft would be the best selection for a cost effective air taxi concept operating out of the Midwest. Not interested in Eclipe 500s or VLJs per se. With the lack of FIKI certification on the Cirrus, would the Twinstar be the better choice in terms of dispatch reliability?
 

bdhill1979

Gone West
would the Twinstar be the better choice in terms of dispatch reliability?
??? are you joking???

I can't tell.

Twinstars break constantly, Thielert (the engine manufacturer) has filed for insolvency, parts are taking forever to show up. They are by far the lowest reliability airplane I have seen. They were all grounded a few weeks ago with (yet another) emergency AD about the prop clutches disintegrating.

That aside the Twinstar is not a people hauler, it just looks pretty. The fuel efficiency (when the plane is not broken) does not even remotely offset the purchase cost.
 

bdhill1979

Gone West
What aircraft would you recommend?
There are so many variables to consider:

How many people? From your original question of SR22 G3 vs DA42 I am guessing 3 or less
How far?
How fast?
Purchase cost?
Operating cost?
Luxury lifestyle customer?


Just to name a few

What kind of operation are you considering?
 

theyoungs02

New Member
The idea is similar to SATSAir down in Atlanta

How many people: 1-2
How far: approx 300nm
How fast: Ideally around 190-200kt
Purshase Cost: $600k max per plane
Operating Cost: below $250/hr
Customer: Med-High Net worth or first class commercial passenger/business traveler

It will be either a fixed hourly rate or $ per mile 135 operation
 

theyoungs02

New Member
My only concern with the Cirrus in the Midwest is winter weather conditions and to the degree I cannot dispatch b/c of lack of FIKI cert. Hard to beat the Cirrus though in non winter months in terms of performance and $.
 

woutlaw

Well-Known Member
Point2Point tried the low-cost, single-engine air taxi concept in the Dakotas using the Cirrus but got killed by the lack of FIKI during the winter and shut down.

http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/Point2Point_Airways_Aircraft_Repossessed_195576-1.html

IIRC, Bonanzas, Columbia (now Cessna 350/400) and Mooney offer FIKI, either standard or via STC, which would seem to be a must-have if you want to dispatch between October and May in the midwest.

Looking for thoughts on which aircraft would be the best selection for a cost effective air taxi concept operating out of the Midwest. Not interested in Eclipe 500s or VLJs per se. With the lack of FIKI certification on the Cirrus, would the Twinstar be the better choice in terms of dispatch reliability?
 

bdhill1979

Gone West
My only concern with the Cirrus in the Midwest is winter weather conditions and to the degree I cannot dispatch b/c of lack of FIKI cert. Hard to beat the Cirrus though in non winter months in terms of performance and $.
I "heard" from a Cirrus owner that known ice certification was coming.

I flew a DA42 in ice once, scared the living #### out of me. If I remember right the fluid reservoir was only 3 hours on high setting, we were on a 4 hour flight.
 

bdhill1979

Gone West
IIRC, Bonanzas, Columbia (now Cessna 350/400) and Mooney offer FIKI, either standard or via STC, which would seem to be a must-have if you want to dispatch between October and May in the midwest.
I didnt know you could get ice protection on the Columbia/cessna.

That would get my vote for what you are talking about.

Cessna 400

Good speed
Good operating costs
Reasonable purchase price
Cessna factory support

edit to add: the G1000 with the integrated GFC 700 autopilot is cheating :D
 

theyoungs02

New Member
Never considered a Cessna 400...guess I thought with lack of BRS parachute and single engine that it would not be attractive to potential customers...thoughts?
 

woutlaw

Well-Known Member
Huh. Looks like the Cessna 400 isn't certified for FIKI after all. Weird, I thought previous Columbias were.

FIKI is a hot topic among cirrus pilots right now, and I've heard the same thing, that it's on the way. But who knows, it's all just rumor.

I guess that leaves the Bonanza, but the purchase price will be above 600K and operating costs are certainly all of $250/hr.

A nicely refurbed T210 perhaps?

The operating costs are higher, but it's hard to argue with the old stalwarts: 310s, Barons, Senecas, Aztecs, hell even a T303.
 

moxiepilot

Well-Known Member
If you are deciding between those two, all I can say is to wait until Oshkosh for some things regarding the Cirrus. There may be a better package coming to the market...
 

Derg

New Arizona, Il Duce/Warlord
Staff member
How about a nice, low-time mid-80's Baron? Nice useful load, two engines, fast, lots of parts commonality and availability... Made with lots of rivets instead of glue! ;)
 

ppragman

FLIPY FLAPS!
Bonanza A36 with TKS (for known ice) and trend monitoring so you can blast off into IFR. $250k or so. Fast, with good fuel economy and only one motor to break.
 

JayAre

Well-Known Member
If you want winter flying look at a twin. Like what doug said or a chieftain. Or forget the plastic toy plane and look at ce-210.
 

milleR

Well-Known Member
Who in their right mind would fly into known ice in a piston single anyway? Even in a piston twin it's questionable. A nice used baron or 400 series twin cessna can be had for well under $600k.
 
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