Thinking about going to Richmond.

crazyjeep

crazyjeep

Well-Known Member
Hey all. So I fall into the catagory of always wanting to fly, but just now making it a dream. On top of that, my current career choice I am finding out I really dont want to be doing that when I am 40.

I am a new pilot, without my PPL. I started some local training here at my FBO. 8 Hours down in a Cherokee 140. I have decided that I really want to do this as a career.

So, I talked to Rick and I am trying to figure out the best way to accomplish this task, and bring home paycheck as quickly as possible. I got approved for the loan, 75k. That would include the ACPP program plus my PPL. I dont think I can pass up the cost compared to what my FBO has. I mean, she is a great instructor, but it is going to take me about four months to complete my PPL, not including the XC.

I am going to try to get down to Richmond in the next week or so to check the facilities out, etc. If I decide then this is where I want to go for my training, I will put the deposit down.

Anybody have any recent experience with Richmond? How are the CFI's as of now. From earlier posts from the board, this is a nice location to do the 60 day and 90 day training. I am going to try and get my PPL written and IR written completed before I head down for training.

How are they for say time off for a family function. My family has a reunion coming up in July, and would be towards the end of my training. Would it be hard to get way for 5 days?

And someone said the SE A/C they had were mainly 79 Cessna's. What kind of condition is the aircraft in. My buddy wants to go down to Ari Ben to get his ratings, but after hearing all the negative opinions, and actual facts from FAA I think he is thinking ATP as well. But I want to make sure that the plane I train in is taken care of. For me, Safety is #1.

I have yet to get my own headset, is that required before I start down there? Anyways, any suggestions or checklists I should have for things to bring that arent part of the given materials?

thank you ahead of time.

CJ
 
Great to hear you have made the career change decision. I started my PPL training about a year ago, started fast, took some time off from the heat in the summer, and hit it hard again in the fall. If I had it all to do again I'd have gone the ATP route for my private. Instead I'm preparing to head off to the 90 ACPP in Arlington. Loans in order PPL checkride saturday, medical tomorrow......Interview soon.
Sorry I can't answer alot of your questions but I can tell you that you should buy a headset. The sooner the better. Few things are as gross as wearing someone elses headset, especially after someone's sweat all over it. Actually most flight schools, even FBO schools make it a prerequisite. Do yourself a favor and pick a good David Clark I started with a 10-30 which has been a great headset for me, but I'm going to get a new headset with ANR before making the switch over to a seminole. I think my hearing may thank me some day.

Good Luck!
 
crazyjeep said:
How are they for say time off for a family function. My family has a reunion coming up in July, and would be towards the end of my training. Would it be hard to get way for 5 days?
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Get the time off approved before you give them your deposit, and it wouldn't hurt to get it in writing. If those 5 days end up during the 2 weeks you're supposed to be at CFI school ATP might say "Go to CFI school when we schedule it or you're out".

And someone said the SE A/C they had were mainly 79 Cessna's. What kind of condition is the aircraft in.
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All the Cessnas I ever saw at RIC were very new. The seminoles are the '79 models.

I have yet to get my own headset, is that required before I start down there?
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Yeah you need a headset before you start.
 
I got about 3 hours left with my FBO instructor, then gonna order my headset, prolly a David Clark, H10-20, or something along those lines.

Im nervous leaving my wife(got married last october) for so long. We have been together for , gosh, 7 years now? And I dont believe we've been seperated for so long. But she is supportive. Im going to go into this with the mindset that it is all business. Anyways, its late here.

CJ
 
I am not here to bash ATP. They have a good program and I've heard many success stories. Its the $75K in debt that worries me. That's a lot debt for a newly-wed couple (or anyone for the matter). On the plus side it sounds as if you have a very supportive wife.

I would just strongly suggest you look at all your options before taking on such a large loan, but this is coming from a Clark Howard / Dave Ramsey fan. I'm sure others may disagree.

Good luck.
 
fadec said:
I am not here to bash ATP. They have a good program and I've heard many success stories. Its the $75K in debt that worries me. That's a lot debt for a newly-wed couple (or anyone for the matter). On the plus side it sounds as if you have a very supportive wife.

I would just strongly suggest you look at all your options before taking on such a large loan, but this is coming from a Clark Howard / Dave Ramsey fan. I'm sure others may disagree.

Good luck.
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Thats why i suggested not to buy a headset! all that debt will kill ya, especially if you add in the cost of worthless equipment like headsets. who needs em?
 
I am a Ramsey fan myself. So, debt is a big concern of mine. Ive gone through my budget, and trying to find the best solution for my long term goals. Currently, my wife makes roughly 45k, and thats with her masters degree in Occupational Therapy. We are living in Michigan, and the economy here is headed downhill. I know as a nation its pretty bleak, but there is nothing in Michigan. Ive spent the last 6 months looking for a decent job. Had an interview today for a tech job, Call center gig for XO communications. However, that $10 / 40 hr week. So I'd be making, well, 19k a year. Since I have yet to complete my degree(2 yrs left) I'd be hitting the "management" wall pretty quick.

I am looking at the 75k debt as an investment into my future, as well as my Wife/future family. I know its going to be rough the first couple of years, but down the line it will give us some benifits. As for alot of the people I have talked to in the Airline community, it looks pretty open in regards to possibilities. With the forced retirement at 65, that will give me 37 years to fly the big planes.

I am expecting once I complete the program I will be sitting around 300 TT , with about 100 of that being ME. I have heard several stories of pilots picking up regionals with those mins. I would like to CFI for a bit to get some additional hours, and experience provided a student doesnt get me killed. But thats what Life insurance is for. We wouldnt fly if we werent adament about it. Its a Risk we take everytime we go up, but its a calculated one.

My big thing right now is, if I dont do it, then I will spend the rest of my life do a "what if" senario. Anyways, thats the way I percieve it. There are other options out there for becoming a Commercial Airline pilot. But the costs only slightly less, and they require cash up front, instead I can finance this. Not to mention it would mean I would got through my local FBO, which does not have access to a ME A/C. Nearest plane availible is an hour away, and they charge 250$ wet, without instructor. So I am balancing the Time, cost, and quickest ROI.

CJ
 
i agree 100% with your opinion on the financing... I chose to go to ATP because I couldn't keep paying for my flights by the hour. financing it was the only way to go for me, and in fact, i'd say its cheaper to do it at ATP than the FBO I was originally at. especially for the private program. $8995 for 85 hours... i'd only get 62 hours dual at my FBO for that money.

anyways... im at richmond right now, sitting in the VIP lounge at the jet center. i'm right in the middle of my private program. i'll be completely honest with you:

when i first got here, there was 1 private instructor and 9 students. he was a nice guy and a great instructor... but he was tired of working here and was applying to airlines. a few days later, he was hired, then 2 weeks and he was gone. we did get a replacement instructor, but we still have too many students per instructor. i didn't fly until my 10th day here. (got here january 7th, first flight was on the 16th.) the reason, as i said, was because there werent enough instructors, and current students were priority. i'll tell you what, for a while, i was pissed, along with the other new student. but we have two private instructors now, and we're down to 6 or 7 students. i've already cross country solo'd, one more and then i build my solo time, and then i prep for my checkride. then it's time building and instrument. i should actually be done on time, despite the lag in the beginning. my instructor is very very good. he's extremely thorough in everything he teaches, gets us all together for ground and drills stuff into our heads. and he's a nice guy. the multi engine instructors are all very cool as well. as a matter of fact, i'd love to have any one of them for my ACPP, but it looks like they will all be hired by an airline by time i start that in april. (i have a month between the end of private and beginning of career).

so, about the planes. there are three cessnas here, and they're all pretty nice, one of them even has autopilot that works with the gps or the dg. but, one of them has a few issues, lol. it has right-turning tendencies... even on climbout. so there's no holding right rudder on climb or anything, it does it for you. but straight and level, u gotta hold a little left rudder.... yea, very annoying. the nosewheel's shimmy damper is also worthless. unless u keep the pressure off the nose, it's gonna shake like crazy. so we've actually been trying to fly that one a lot, to get it out of here and back to atlanta or jax for the 100 hour inspection... hopefully we never see it again.

other than that, the cessnas are pretty clean, in good shape, and run perfectly well. and the seminoles all seem to be nice. i haven't flown 'em yet, but one of my new buddies (who happens to live about 7 miles from me, in my neighboring town, up in ny... just by coincidence) is in the career program, so i get to learn from him.

all in all... atp richmond is getting back on their feet. it was slow for a while, but it looks like i will be done on time anyways.

and yea, buy a headset. and take clocks' advice on the 5 day break. especially if it's at the end of your training.

just curious, when are you looking to start? and if you do come for a tour here, let me know - i'll tell you who to talk to :)
 
SIUav8er said:
Thats why i suggested not to buy a headset! all that debt will kill ya, especially if you add in the cost of worthless equipment like headsets. who needs em?
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If you want to fly around in a C-172 or a Seminole without a headset that's your business. As for me I would prefer to preserve my hearing. I'd rather not need a hearing aid 10-15 yrs down the road. $250-300 is alot cheaper than hearing aids
 
Dont worry about the headset issue, its null. Just ordered a David Clark H10-60C, coiled cord. Should get me through all the training. And yes, I do prize my hearing, however, when it comes to my wife's honey do list, I claim to be tone deaf.
 
Insidious, I bought some airplane tickets. I sent an email to Rick Streng asking for a tour next week tuesday. I fly in Monday night, 9:30p, and then depart Wednesday at 9:30am. Just a quick in and out. If I like what I see, I will try to get down there as soon as I can. Im unemployed, so speed is everything. Working on getting my ppl written and ir written done.
 
crazyjeep said:
Dont worry about the headset issue, its null. Just ordered a David Clark H10-60C, coiled cord. Should get me through all the training. And yes, I do prize my hearing, however, when it comes to my wife's honey do list, I claim to be tone deaf.
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Tone Deaf....So that's the term. It's funny how our wife's think that we are ignoring them. My wife gets really furious when I do actually hear her, my usual reply is...."Yes Dear" Then an hour later its...."Honey, What did you ask me to do?"
 
Let me know how your interview/visit goes. I've got my PPL checkride this weekend then I've got to get one scheduled for Arlinton (GKY)
 
crazyjeep said:
Im unemployed, so speed is everything. Working on getting my ppl written and ir written done.
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Take advantage of your free time and take the rest of the written tests too.

You're going to take the PPL and intrument anyways. Might as well take the FII (flight instructor instrument), its the same test. Then take the commercial written if you have the time. And hey the FIA (Flight Instructor Airplane) is almost the same as the commercial test, how easy is that?

That leaves you with one remaining test, the FOI (fundamentals of instruction) which is a very easy written (although people seem to mess it up in the oral).

Only one of my students showed up the first day with a stack of written test results. It made his life a lot easier.

*edit* just clicked that you dont have your PPL yet. Wouldnt hut to put off the commercial/FIA. You'll have free time during the private program.
 
Well. I am heading down tomarrow, and have my tour for 10am on the 5th of Febuary. So I am quite excited.

An to top it all off, Today I had my first solo at KHYX Saginaw Brown. 4 take off and landing, the extra one was just for fun. :) In all, I got 1.3 hrs today, .5 PIC. My instructor even let me write it in my OWN logbook, lol(Sarcasm). :) Either way, its a great day. I set a goal of roughly 11 hrs for solo for myself. So I made that goal!

It is unbelieveable how much I have come in the last two weeks of my FBO flight training. Around hour 5 and 6 I so thought I was such a horrible pilot, my landings were horrible. But it all finally clicked.

The sad part is, I didnt solo at my home field. The michigan snow has forced my instructor to move from our grass field at K66G(Zehnder Field) in Frankenmuth(aka, Bronners, World's Largest Christmas store). So tomarrow we head back to Frankenmuth, and I get to do it again on the grass strip with a little bit of snow. I wont have the endless amount of runway beneath me like Saginaw. Anyways, Im very happy with myself.
 
Ok, So I am sitting at the Richmond airport now. The internet is terribly slow. Anyways. The tour was so so. I arrived 10 min early, and eventually found the ATP offices in the building. Its really easy to find once you get decent directions.

I say the tour was so so, because I met with Todd(Manager), and we sat, and talked for three minutes. But he made it feel like he was selling me a used car. Not a bad guy I suppose, not sure if they get a bonus for each student attending or not. After the speech about how ATP is the greatest and best for 3 minutes we went out and jumped in one of the Seminoles. Well, rather I jumped in, and he disappeared for 2-3 minutes. When he got back he jumped into right seat. I commented how it was somewhat similar to the Cherokee I am flying back home, and he brushed it off. Anyways, after that we got out, and he left me to the students. So, 6 minute tour for a 3 hour flight down. He didnt even go into the program details, etc. But hey, thats management.

I did hang out for several hours with the students. I met and talked with it looked like all the 60 day pilots who started in January, and a few of the 90 day pilots. They all had pros and cons to say, but generally they all enjoyed the program. Some of the 60 day pilots said it took them a week or more to fly, and it irritated them at first.

For the 60 day program it seems like its slow to start while they try to rush the later 60 day pilots out, then the new guys get to fly. Also from watching the CFI's, etc talk to the student pilots it is VERY important to get your written done for PPL. Its just common sense. A few of them are entiring their 2nd month it looks like and havent completed the PPL written, and have their checkrides later this week. Yikes!

As for the 90 day program, I hear good things, and its a nice smooth program, not start lag like the 60 day program.

For the CFI's, for the few I saw are decent. I did notice a few of the CFI's trying to be the students best friend, which IMO isnt bad. But in an enviroment where I am paying a big chunk of cash I want to learn, for me this is a business transaction, and im not trying to buy friends. I worry a little that I wouldnt be taught everything I need to know. Ground school seems non-existant, I dont know what the rules are for having an av school, but it all self study. I know the site says they get ground school, but its dependent on the CFI, and usually it only happens when a few students are not getting a particular concept.

Equally as such, I have solo'd, I know the list of things required and was quite suprised to find some students who are 20-30 hours into the program who did not know what slips were. Anyways, makes me glad I got my CFI at home.

So, is this site good for me. I would say 80% yes, 20% no. There are a few things brought to my attention that disturbed me. More or less the opinions of an employee there that is way left base. But I figure I can work around that, as I said, it is a business transaction.

Part of the 20% I say now is because the first flight experiences of some of the students. CFI's doing high turns, banks, neg G manuevers, etc then telling the student to do maneuvers. On top of that I heard a story about one of the upper cfi guys doing a "watch this", who tried to bring a 172 in before an airline on final. Something about a 120 kts landing , and brakes locking up, then a tire blowing, etc. Again, alot of this is 2nd hand from the people there.

So, I did decide to attend the school. I have a start date of April 7th. And then a start date of the 90 day program on June 9th. I am gonna get ahead of the schedule and get most if not all my writtens done. Im setting up my written for next friday, and then working on my IR and FIR, the commercial, etc.

I kind of wished I could start ealier, but the later start date gives me more than enough time to study and kill some of the writtens. Anyways, Hope this info helps for the folks thinking about dropping big money at ATP.

Anybody know if I can request a particular CFI when attending? If any of the 60 day CFIs were all business, it was Shaan(sorry if I mispelled), he seemed like he was on the ball. So, I'll give them a call closer to the program to see if he is still around and if I can request him.
 
I don't know maybe it was just a bad day. But if I had taken a 3 hour flight down there and was about to drop $70K that's one hell of a bad first impression.

About a year ago I made an appointment for a tour of the Atlanta location. I showed up and the individual that was supposed to give me the tour wasn't around. Out with a student or something. I waited around for an hour or so and finally had to leave to get to work. The nice lady working in the office did give me some information but it was the same stuff on their website.


I just kind of blew it off at the time as I wasn't that serious about attending. However, if I had traveled from out of town and was ready to drop $50-60-70k I would of been p*ssed!!!!

Remember you're the customer!!
 
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