Thinking about getting the CSIP...

[braunpilot]

I am considering paying for the CSIP but want to know the downsides to it. I already have read again and again until my eyeballs hurt Cirrus' website about getting it but it doesn't provide much detail. If there is another thread out there for this sorry, but what is the hardest part about getting it one, and second keeping current. I have a full time job Monday though Friday so it would have to be a weekend thing.

What does 6 DIFFERENT training missions mean?

How much is the annual recertification if you do meet the minimums?

Thanks.

 

[SlantG]

CSIP = not one breath of criticism towards the Cirrus Aircraft. If you make any attempt to comply with any regulations such as NTSB 830.5 you will have your "designation" yanked for "disparging" the aircraft. Read the CSIP Contract carefully, it is in there.

Six missions is at least six cross-country flights of 1.5-2 hours each, more if your instructor is an ink-wet idiot that thinks anyone who didn't attend UND doesn't know how to fly and does his best to "put down" any experienced instructors, yet wants you to fly with active thunderstorms over the airport and/or in icing conditions (a/c are not certified FIKI). If you get one of these jerks, ask for a different instructor before the second lesson, otherwise it's $1195 a day (or more) extra. If you have a good instructor, you'll learn quite a bit about the aircraft and it's operation, and what tricks the students will pull on you as they transition to it.

Know your aircraft before you get there. If it is a "G2" or "G1" aircraft, do a very careful control check on each preflight and check the maintenance logs to see compliance with the rudder-aileron interconnect service bulletin. The careful control check is to do a box with the yoke, then holding full left rudder, do a box with the yoke. Go to full right rudder and repeat the box. If you feel anything strange other than the "usual" spring resistance, binding, or a "catch and release" feeling in the controls, do not fly that aircraft until you know what is causing the strange feeling.

To best prepare for the course, know the avionics of the Cirrus you'll be flying before showing. If it's the Perspective, know the G1000 inside and out. If it's the Avidyne system, know the G430 inside and out.

Cost to renew the CSIP could be $95. You must give them the names and contact info for six "missions" with students, could be a BFR or an instrument rating, each "mission" counts as one, no matter how many flight hours are involved. You'll go through an approximately 100 question multiple guess test. If you haven't flown six missions or score poorly on the test, you may be required to go back to the factory with a Cirrus (or rent one there) to take a checkride.

The cost to renew could be in excess of $500 if they go through with forcing you to buy whatever training program (currently Jepp at $495 or $695 or something). Or, you could run afoul of the Cirrus Design Corp. censors and not be able to renew, thus wasting your $6000+ cost/opportunity cost for the CSIP training.

Tip: Do not get involved with the maintenance or upkeep of the Cirrus Aircraft. Unlike Lexus, BMW, or even Eclipse or Cessna, the customer support of CDC is not designed. Their people are sales-orientated, not service-orientated. If you have a problem with an aircraft, let the owner know and let the owner deal with it, otherwise Cirrus may yank your "designation" for being a troublemaker. If your owners want an aircraft management service, send them to Mike Busch's organization.

FYI, transitioning Cessna pilots like to get into a fast PIO in the flare, an easy prop strike. They also like to drag the brakes which has lead to more than one fire. The published approach speeds are too fast for the flare, the SR22 will float 800', the SR20 will float about 600' before touching down in a full stall. I haven't counted float distance for the G3 or Perspective aircraft.

YMMV.

 

[woutlaw]

The biggest stumbling block I see is not really knowing the Garmin 430 before you show up in Duluth. (This for Avidyne models, I haven't done any training in the Perspective yet. I'm still learning the thing myself.)

If you have some experience in the aircraft it goes easier, but the CSIP course is basically the same as the new owner transition course, with some additional detail. If you study hard ahead of time, do both workbooks and show up prepared it'll be fun.

The downside is it's expensive and it can take some time to recoup that investment if you don't have access to a ready pool of Cirrus students. The recurrent training market seems to have slowed quite a bit as insurers have relaxed some of their requirements. Also, most Cirrus pilots seem to already have a CSIP they've been working with, so getting recurrent work can be difficult.

Transitions for new owners almost all seem to happen up at the factory.

I do maybe four or five transitions a year for a flight school I do some work for, plus a bunch of other Cirrus flights (instrument currency, second pilot on a trip somewhere in scuzzy wx, that sort of thing) but get almost zero work "off the street" as an independent.

It's a really fun airplane to learn, you earn your money when it comes time to teach it because it's hard work and it takes some effort to stay on top of everything if you're not doing it every day.

And yes, guard the stick on landing as PIOs are common as is getting too slow and starting the flare too high. I tell everybody to drive it down to the runway until you think the nosewheel is going to bury itself, take a breath then start the roundout/flare. If you manage the energy and airspeed precisely it's a really easy airplane to land.

Renewal is $95. If you attend the annual CSIP Symposium in Duluth you're automagically renewed for free, regardless of what training you've done in the past year.

The other upside is learning to teach the glass and systems on the a/c are a good foundation for transitioning into the avionics on a jet. Or at least that's what the jet drivers I've been working with lately have told me.

 

[braunpilot]

I appreciate it. I have a few people lined up already if I go ahead and do but it is still the cost that shocks me. I did the Garmin G1000 training at Cessna at IDP and was amazed how little there was. There were a few times that I thought that I knew more than the Instructors, I actually read the material before going out there. I know plenty about the 430's, would love the training on the 430W's just so that I can get used to them.

I will have to think this over more. Thanks!

 

[woutlaw]

I did the Garmin G1000 training at Cessna at IDP and was amazed how little there was. There were a few times that I thought that I knew more than the Instructors,

I knew far more about the airplane than my instructor when I got to Duluth.

Granted, it was an early -20 with an old Arnav MFD, steam gauges, a single alternator and not one, but two vacuum pumps. And I'd been flying it a bunch already and studied hard before I went up.

After the first flight he looked over and said "you know how to teach the airplane already."

"Great!" I said, "let's go home, get a beer and you can sign me off."

Not to be. We still flew out the entire course, which was a drag because it cost a bunch and all we did was check the boxes.

On the upside, it was kinda fun to do a partial panel 80-260 procedure turn, which he'd never seen before (hearing that didn't exactly elevate UND in my mind) and watch him squirm when I put it into a big ol' slip during an engine out.

I figured if I was paying for it, I might as well have some fun with the poor guy.

It was useful to spend three days flying the snot out of the airplane so it's all good I guess.

 

[moxiepilot]

woot!

good job outlaw

 

[hook_dupin]

Thread revival.... anyone done the CSIP course lately? What's the current cost?

I'm thinking about doing it to broaden my horizons and get into the free-lance CFI market more.

Any recent CSIP reviews?