Given that the economic forecast for the majors is rather bleak, is anyone reconsidering their career goals? This seems especially detrimental to people who are about to assume a great deal of debt for flight school. If the majors tip, won't that slow upward mobility for flight instructors and regional airline pilots? Do any working pilots out there have anything to say about this?
The majors are tipping. Is anyone reconsidering their career goals?
- Thread starter Hazelrah
- Start date
bullmastiff
New Member
My parents will get mad if I go into porn...... I am not gonna be wavered by it. It is my dream, I am definetely not getting into this for the money. A sugarmomma will take care of that
G
Guest
Guest
No. I still plan on being an airline pilot someday and Im not giving up. Just like the industry took a downturn, it could also boost up. If by then the airlines haven't recovered then I'll just do charters or something else. Aviation is not only about airliners anyways.
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Given that the economic forecast for the majors is rather bleak, is anyone reconsidering their career goals? This seems especially detrimental to people who are about to assume a great deal of debt for flight school. If the majors tip, won't that slow upward mobility for flight instructors and regional airline pilots? Do any working pilots out there have anything to say about this?
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Due to the events beyond our control, Jetcareers.com will become Cessnacareers.com.
Given that the economic forecast for the majors is rather bleak, is anyone reconsidering their career goals? This seems especially detrimental to people who are about to assume a great deal of debt for flight school. If the majors tip, won't that slow upward mobility for flight instructors and regional airline pilots? Do any working pilots out there have anything to say about this?
[/ QUOTE ]
Due to the events beyond our control, Jetcareers.com will become Cessnacareers.com.
Tired
New Member
Re: The majors are tipping. Is anyone reconsidering their career goal
The market is sorting itself out...the strong will make it and one or two (US Airways and United) may not.
Have you seen the pay at the majors these days...majors like Southwest and AirTran pay better then airlines like American or United.
Think about this, passenger traffic is going to be pretty much the same even if a few airlines go away. Somebody will move in to do that flying, and they will need about the same number of pilots to do it, minus a few because LCC pilots are more productive.
Southwest will double in size by 2010. JetBlue will I think double by 2008?
The market is sorting itself out...the strong will make it and one or two (US Airways and United) may not.
Have you seen the pay at the majors these days...majors like Southwest and AirTran pay better then airlines like American or United.
Think about this, passenger traffic is going to be pretty much the same even if a few airlines go away. Somebody will move in to do that flying, and they will need about the same number of pilots to do it, minus a few because LCC pilots are more productive.
Southwest will double in size by 2010. JetBlue will I think double by 2008?
Minnesota_Flyer
New Member
Re: The majors are tipping. Is anyone reconsidering their career goal
[ QUOTE ]
The market is sorting itself out...the strong will make it and one or two (US Airways and United) may not.
Have you seen the pay at the majors these days...majors like Southwest and AirTran pay better then airlines like American or United.
Think about this, passenger traffic is going to be pretty much the same even if a few airlines go away. Somebody will move in to do that flying, and they will need about the same number of pilots to do it, minus a few because LCC pilots are more productive.
Southwest will double in size by 2010. JetBlue will I think double by 2008?
[/ QUOTE ]
This may be a dumb question, but how can one pilot be more productive than other?? Do they just pedal faster?
And, no, I'm not reconsidering my career goals. People will still need to get from place to place. If a few majors fail, others will fill the void. For "smaller" routes, regionals (i.e. CRJs) may fill the gap, but pilots will still ride the route. The days of the $350,000 captain are gone, but how many people ever really made it to that level anyway?
MF
[ QUOTE ]
The market is sorting itself out...the strong will make it and one or two (US Airways and United) may not.
Have you seen the pay at the majors these days...majors like Southwest and AirTran pay better then airlines like American or United.
Think about this, passenger traffic is going to be pretty much the same even if a few airlines go away. Somebody will move in to do that flying, and they will need about the same number of pilots to do it, minus a few because LCC pilots are more productive.
Southwest will double in size by 2010. JetBlue will I think double by 2008?
[/ QUOTE ]
This may be a dumb question, but how can one pilot be more productive than other?? Do they just pedal faster?
And, no, I'm not reconsidering my career goals. People will still need to get from place to place. If a few majors fail, others will fill the void. For "smaller" routes, regionals (i.e. CRJs) may fill the gap, but pilots will still ride the route. The days of the $350,000 captain are gone, but how many people ever really made it to that level anyway?
MF
mtsu_av8er
Well-Known Member
Re: The majors are tipping. Is anyone reconsidering their career goal
[ QUOTE ]
This may be a dumb question, but how can one pilot be more productive than other?? Do they just pedal faster?
MF
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It's not just the pilots - it's the whole company.
Alot of ways. Power-off decents. Economical altitudes. Making good fuel choices. Taking every direct clearance you can get. Do away with assigned seating and board faster. Taxi faster.
There are a whole lot of ways to be more efficient.
[ QUOTE ]
This may be a dumb question, but how can one pilot be more productive than other?? Do they just pedal faster?
MF
[/ QUOTE ]
It's not just the pilots - it's the whole company.
Alot of ways. Power-off decents. Economical altitudes. Making good fuel choices. Taking every direct clearance you can get. Do away with assigned seating and board faster. Taxi faster.
There are a whole lot of ways to be more efficient.
stuckingfk
Well-Known Member
Re: The majors are tipping. Is anyone reconsidering their career goal
Also, make have better lines for pilots to choose and fly them around 80-90 hours a month.
Also, make have better lines for pilots to choose and fly them around 80-90 hours a month.
mtsu_av8er
Well-Known Member
Re: The majors are tipping. Is anyone reconsidering their career goal
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Also, make have better lines for pilots to choose and fly them around 80-90 hours a month.
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That's the best way!!! I'm all for it.
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Also, make have better lines for pilots to choose and fly them around 80-90 hours a month.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's the best way!!! I'm all for it.
Scoles
New Member
Re: The majors are tipping. Is anyone reconsidering their career goal
Perhaps slightly off topic, but connected because it has do do with the future prospects as well... but is anyone worried about the potential risk of jetliners becoming more automatic than they are now? To the point where only 1, or maybe not even 1 pilot would be need any longer. Thats the only unknown that worries me- there will always be prospects for flying even when companies go under (others come out) but if you can program a computer to fly an aircraft, or do the flying from the ground- isnt there plenty of money to be saved rather than paying pilots? Any thoughts?
Cheers
Perhaps slightly off topic, but connected because it has do do with the future prospects as well... but is anyone worried about the potential risk of jetliners becoming more automatic than they are now? To the point where only 1, or maybe not even 1 pilot would be need any longer. Thats the only unknown that worries me- there will always be prospects for flying even when companies go under (others come out) but if you can program a computer to fly an aircraft, or do the flying from the ground- isnt there plenty of money to be saved rather than paying pilots? Any thoughts?
Cheers
bjm
New Member
Re: The majors are tipping. Is anyone reconsidering their career goal
Slightly off-topic, yes, and the point you raise is one I've thought about too. The easy answer, imo, is that a computer cannot be counted on to make crucial decisions. A PILOT, not just any person, will be necessary on board all aircraft. And, just as there's redundancy in flight systems, there should be redundancy in pilots, keeping two up front.
I've also thought about how would a computer respond to any sort of emergency instructions from ATC. if you want to get really wacky, you could picture controllers (kids! i.e. the movie toys), moving airplanes around with joysticks to keep them from running into each other when necessary. i just don't see anyone wanting to put their lives wholly in the hands of a computer. i can't think of any other situation where that has happened...yet.
back to topic--i repeat what others have said. i'm sticking to my training, and others will replace those who have fallen. i think the industry is going to be quite different as far as airplanes, destinations, etc. but the demand will always remain.
Slightly off-topic, yes, and the point you raise is one I've thought about too. The easy answer, imo, is that a computer cannot be counted on to make crucial decisions. A PILOT, not just any person, will be necessary on board all aircraft. And, just as there's redundancy in flight systems, there should be redundancy in pilots, keeping two up front.
I've also thought about how would a computer respond to any sort of emergency instructions from ATC. if you want to get really wacky, you could picture controllers (kids! i.e. the movie toys), moving airplanes around with joysticks to keep them from running into each other when necessary. i just don't see anyone wanting to put their lives wholly in the hands of a computer. i can't think of any other situation where that has happened...yet.
back to topic--i repeat what others have said. i'm sticking to my training, and others will replace those who have fallen. i think the industry is going to be quite different as far as airplanes, destinations, etc. but the demand will always remain.
Mr_Jimmy_Fly
New Member
Re: The majors are tipping. Is anyone reconsidering their career goal
[ QUOTE ]
The majors are tipping. Is anyone reconsidering their career goals?
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Good! The standard tip is 15% and I'm all for it. Pilots are underpaid as it is. Air travel is suppose to double in the next 8-10 years. Somebody has to pilot those planes, it might as well be you and me.
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The majors are tipping. Is anyone reconsidering their career goals?
[/ QUOTE ]
Good! The standard tip is 15% and I'm all for it. Pilots are underpaid as it is. Air travel is suppose to double in the next 8-10 years. Somebody has to pilot those planes, it might as well be you and me.
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Ecl!pse
Well-Known Member
Re: The majors are tipping. Is anyone reconsidering their career goal
[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps slightly off topic, but connected because it has do do with the future prospects as well... but is anyone worried about the potential risk of jetliners becoming more automatic than they are now? To the point where only 1, or maybe not even 1 pilot would be need any longer. Thats the only unknown that worries me- there will always be prospects for flying even when companies go under (others come out) but if you can program a computer to fly an aircraft, or do the flying from the ground- isnt there plenty of money to be saved rather than paying pilots? Any thoughts?
Cheers
[/ QUOTE ]
Dude, everytime I see this programs on Discovery Wings, and other shows, and they talk about pilotless airplanes I turn it off. There is no reason for human absence in the cockpit, computers malfunction every now and then, and if their is no pilot to back up, well, say good-bye. I really dont like this thought that people have, and I truly hope that it stays as automated as it is now.
[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps slightly off topic, but connected because it has do do with the future prospects as well... but is anyone worried about the potential risk of jetliners becoming more automatic than they are now? To the point where only 1, or maybe not even 1 pilot would be need any longer. Thats the only unknown that worries me- there will always be prospects for flying even when companies go under (others come out) but if you can program a computer to fly an aircraft, or do the flying from the ground- isnt there plenty of money to be saved rather than paying pilots? Any thoughts?
Cheers
[/ QUOTE ]
Dude, everytime I see this programs on Discovery Wings, and other shows, and they talk about pilotless airplanes I turn it off. There is no reason for human absence in the cockpit, computers malfunction every now and then, and if their is no pilot to back up, well, say good-bye. I really dont like this thought that people have, and I truly hope that it stays as automated as it is now.
flyover
New Member
[ QUOTE ]
Given that the economic forecast for the majors is rather bleak, is anyone reconsidering their career goals? This seems especially detrimental to people who are about to assume a great deal of debt for flight school. If the majors tip, won't that slow upward mobility for flight instructors and regional airline pilots? Do any working pilots out there have anything to say about this?
[/ QUOTE ]
1)The airline industry has always been cyclical. The incredible business boom that started in the eighties and continued through the nineties was an unusually long up cycle, hence the particuarly vicious down cycle.
2) The pay and benefits enjoyed up to now by the legacy carrier employees were conceived in a regulated/protected industry that was 100% unionized. Deregulation set the stage for what is happening today. It was just the 90s boom that held it off for awhle, leading to:
3) Pay and benefits will not return to what they were, at least not in the lifetime of anyone on this forum. No amount of wishful thinking or union solidarity can overcome the market forces at work here.
4) If you want to fly someone else's airplane for a paycheck, then become a professional pilot. If you want to become a millionaire you might want to look elsewhere.
5) Personally I'm thinking about retiring from my legacy carrier and pursuing other flying interests. So that will make room for one more, it I do.
Make your decision. Live with the choices. Don't be afraid to change course if you want to.
Given that the economic forecast for the majors is rather bleak, is anyone reconsidering their career goals? This seems especially detrimental to people who are about to assume a great deal of debt for flight school. If the majors tip, won't that slow upward mobility for flight instructors and regional airline pilots? Do any working pilots out there have anything to say about this?
[/ QUOTE ]
1)The airline industry has always been cyclical. The incredible business boom that started in the eighties and continued through the nineties was an unusually long up cycle, hence the particuarly vicious down cycle.
2) The pay and benefits enjoyed up to now by the legacy carrier employees were conceived in a regulated/protected industry that was 100% unionized. Deregulation set the stage for what is happening today. It was just the 90s boom that held it off for awhle, leading to:
3) Pay and benefits will not return to what they were, at least not in the lifetime of anyone on this forum. No amount of wishful thinking or union solidarity can overcome the market forces at work here.
4) If you want to fly someone else's airplane for a paycheck, then become a professional pilot. If you want to become a millionaire you might want to look elsewhere.
5) Personally I'm thinking about retiring from my legacy carrier and pursuing other flying interests. So that will make room for one more, it I do.
Make your decision. Live with the choices. Don't be afraid to change course if you want to.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Let's not forget that the major airlines are not the ONLY flying jobs out there. If you're into airlines, some of the regionals are becoming good places to stay for a long time. CHQ is becoming one of the best ones around, and I wouldn't be surprised to see pilots turn down jobs at AA or Delta to stay there. Plus, CHQ has enough diversified regional connections that if one goes under, the whole company won't tank. US Air is pretty much a done deal, and even Mesa is starting to distance themselves to keep from being sucked down. If United doesn't get the gov't loan (which they will have to make a LOT of phone calls if they want to get it), Mesa will either have to re-think their operation, or they'll get MORE flying b/c United will have to outsource more flights and furlough more pilots.
Personally, I don't really care who I end up flying for. Ultimately, I'd like to come back to SWA to retire. As long as I'm getting a steady, fair paycheck, I'll probably be happy. I really don't care if I fly for the airlines or not. I could be just as happy (if not more) flying charters or corporate.
Personally, I don't really care who I end up flying for. Ultimately, I'd like to come back to SWA to retire. As long as I'm getting a steady, fair paycheck, I'll probably be happy. I really don't care if I fly for the airlines or not. I could be just as happy (if not more) flying charters or corporate.