The Job of an A&P
- Thread starter strovrpwr
- Start date
Total guess, but I'd imagine that it would be vastly different depending on what sector you're working in. Said another way, Roger, Roger's job working for a little piston 135 would be very different than someone working in a MEM hanger on FedEx's 777s.
The big danger to the career of an A&P though (and probably the biggest change in the last 20 years) is the outsourcing of heavy mx to other countries, whereas hopefully pilots (at least flying domestically in the US) will hopefully never have to worry about that. If that trend continues I'd expect to see the demand for mx's not be what it could be.
The big danger to the career of an A&P though (and probably the biggest change in the last 20 years) is the outsourcing of heavy mx to other countries, whereas hopefully pilots (at least flying domestically in the US) will hopefully never have to worry about that. If that trend continues I'd expect to see the demand for mx's not be what it could be.
good point about the outsourcing for jumbo's. But with air travel expected to double within 20 years, mx positions have to increase as well. I would predict that as materials start to advance and electronic systems advance, A&P's may need to learn more about composites and may start to get into avionics as well. Maybe like an Airframe, Powerplant, Avionics combo will be the norm or minimum 10 yrs from now.
Well, composites are here already so that information has to be out in the field to be able to deal with those issues that come up. This is probably more of an issue for GA operators who operate out of all sorts of places vs. Airlines who operate out of relatively fixed bases. I don't know the specifics but I believe there is some separate level of certification for Avionics techs, as well as some FCC licensing.
The FAA doesn't have an "avionics" certification. The FCC issues a GROL (General Radio Operators License, big brother of the Restricted Radiotelephone permit that actually requires a test to obtain) which basically just allows you to operate radar systems on the ground, and remove/replace avionics boxes, and many A+Ps have it as many shops still require it. There is an AET certification available from the independent NCATT that is becoming more recognized as the "standard" for avionics technicians.
For the most part, avionics are still handled under rapair stations, just like a prop, the A+P is basically limited to removing it, sending it out, and replacing it when it returns.
Unfortunately, the A+P certificates are still very generalized, with no distinction between working on a Piper Cup and a 777 as far as training and testing requirements. Every A+P must still be able to demonstrate working with fabric wing coverings, wooden airframes, etc.. and not enough emphasis is put on things like NDT, hydraulics and avionics as should be. The system needs an overhaul.
As far as outsourcing, it is a reality that mx is being outsourced in large fashion, and not just to foreign providers. There is a major domestic mx contractor in the US that the Air Force, Southwest, and United have all been sending more and more work to. This particular contractor pays just above minimum wage, has been repeatedly cited for I-9 employment violations, OSHA violations, and various other labor violations. Unfortunately, the rules of cabotage do not apply to mx, and it is also being sent overseas. At the part 147 school I attend, it is a little more than disturbing to see how many foreign nationals are attending school here to return to their home country and take the business with them for mere peanuts.
but ah, that's the new American model: cheaper, faster, on-time and under budget, forget consequences!
For the most part, avionics are still handled under rapair stations, just like a prop, the A+P is basically limited to removing it, sending it out, and replacing it when it returns.
Unfortunately, the A+P certificates are still very generalized, with no distinction between working on a Piper Cup and a 777 as far as training and testing requirements. Every A+P must still be able to demonstrate working with fabric wing coverings, wooden airframes, etc.. and not enough emphasis is put on things like NDT, hydraulics and avionics as should be. The system needs an overhaul.
As far as outsourcing, it is a reality that mx is being outsourced in large fashion, and not just to foreign providers. There is a major domestic mx contractor in the US that the Air Force, Southwest, and United have all been sending more and more work to. This particular contractor pays just above minimum wage, has been repeatedly cited for I-9 employment violations, OSHA violations, and various other labor violations. Unfortunately, the rules of cabotage do not apply to mx, and it is also being sent overseas. At the part 147 school I attend, it is a little more than disturbing to see how many foreign nationals are attending school here to return to their home country and take the business with them for mere peanuts.
but ah, that's the new American model: cheaper, faster, on-time and under budget, forget consequences!
R
Roger, Roger
Guest
Jason hit the nail on the head in a lot of ways. If you want to know where heavy mx is headed, check out the PBS documentary Flying Cheaper. IMHO it's only a matter of time before we have a major fatality accident due to improper mx either in a foreign country with under-supervised "helpers" or a US craphole mx subcontractor pushing to get something out on time and under budget.
I wouldn't say that avionics is really something people will need specific training in in the future, in fact, I think that that need is actuall less outside of a repair station level now than in the past. The reason being that avionics are more and more confined to individual LRUs that, as previously stated, are remove and replace items. You don't need an avionics certificate to troubleshoot, remove, and replace. But you for darn sure need an understanding of the system on a functional and block diagram level. IMHO there will always be a need for guys with systems knowledge and troubleshooting skills. A monkey could literally remove and replace a lot of parts, especially on modern airliners and corporate aircraft designed for ease of maintenance. But it often takes someone who really understands the how and why of a system to find what is causing the problem, and in my limited experience guys who can troubleshoot reliably, accurately, and on many different airframes are few and far between.
scramjet
Well-Known Member
:yeahthat: That's exactly what's going to happen and it will be Colgan and AF all over again except this time with outsourced maintenance rather than pilot fatigue and/or lack of training. Mechanic's unions will be saying "I told you so" while politicians and airline executives will be running around pointing fingers, making excuses, and trying to cover their own asses. Then we'll have knee jerk legislation that should have happened a long time ago...well, you know the drill. A simple way to alleviate it all now would be to require that all individuals performing ANY maintenance tasks on Part 121 aircraft have an A&P or an A or P depending on the system. No more "helpers," no more signing off under "supervision."
Well this is disappointing. So much for my hopes of the average salary of an A&P mechanic reaching in excess of 60k. I still want to get my lisence tho so that I can inspect my own aircraft. It's really a shame that airlines are outsourcing maintenance. Does anyone feel like A&P's, especially the one's who work long shifts with major airlines, are under paid? Seems like a very exhausting and complicated job.
There's a lot of parallels between pilots and mechanics regarding pay, QOL, and the "average" situation. I believe its what you make of it. Like in any career, just meeting the minimums is likely to net a minimum position, with minimum benefits, pay, etc.
Want to be an A+P? Want to make money at it? Do something that "everyone else" is not doing. There are decent positions out there, but they are not going to be filled by someone with just the minimum requirements.
Make yourself worth more. Get your A+P, but also get your GROL and AET(above) certificates. Go another step and get an NDT certification.
And heres my golden career advice that applies to any field: Look at the job postings. See what is in demand. Study it for awhile and you will figure out what qualities, certifications, etc. that employers have a hard time finding qualified people for. For example, look for A+P positions that require NDT certification. You will find that the NDT certification not only eliminates 90% of A+Ps from applying, but it also raises the payscale considerably. Now granted, the more specialized a position, the less of them there are, but they are always out there due to a lack of qualified applicants. Don't settle for minimum or mediocre. Make yourself better and you will find the pay you are looking for.
Want to be an A+P? Want to make money at it? Do something that "everyone else" is not doing. There are decent positions out there, but they are not going to be filled by someone with just the minimum requirements.
Make yourself worth more. Get your A+P, but also get your GROL and AET(above) certificates. Go another step and get an NDT certification.
And heres my golden career advice that applies to any field: Look at the job postings. See what is in demand. Study it for awhile and you will figure out what qualities, certifications, etc. that employers have a hard time finding qualified people for. For example, look for A+P positions that require NDT certification. You will find that the NDT certification not only eliminates 90% of A+Ps from applying, but it also raises the payscale considerably. Now granted, the more specialized a position, the less of them there are, but they are always out there due to a lack of qualified applicants. Don't settle for minimum or mediocre. Make yourself better and you will find the pay you are looking for.
CFI A&P
Exploring the world one toilet at a time.
If you have any questions about NDT, PM me.