STAR speeds

S

STS-41B

Well-Known Member
I'm reading and getting conflicted answers.
Say you're descending via.
Point A requires 250kts at a certain altitude. Point B requires 230kts at an attitude. You pass point B.... do you maintain 230? Decrease speed for the approach? Increase to 250?

Let's say you cross point A, and ATC clears you direct to a fix on the ILS. Can you decease speed? Required to maintain 250 since that was last required speed on the STAR?
 
Screen Shot 2016-05-18 at 19.27.59.png


Most "bottom" fixes are something like "At 210 KIAS, At 7000'." I maintain the last assigned or published speed, whichever I have, until (1) I need to slow, at which point someone asks, or (2) further slowed by ATC or cleared for an approach, which cancels speed restrictions.

(210 is a pretty reasonable "downwind". Let me root around in the books a little more.)
 
I couldn't find, in my cursory post-dinner perusal, anything to back up the above other than considering the last assigned speed mandatory until otherwise authorized or a lower speed is required. See AIM 5-5-9, though:
a. Pilot
...
(2) Complies with speed adjustments from ATC unless:
...
NOTE: It is the pilot's responsibility and prerogative to refuse speed adjustments considered excessive or contrary to the aircraft's operating specifications.
Click to expand...
 
I agree with @Autothrust Blue here. To the OP, I wouldn't think that you would want to INCREASE to 250 after Point B (in your example) as 230 would have been the last assigned speed
 
Thanks for the responses.
No, you wouldn't want to increase speed;

At DFW, they frequently cut off the STAR and fly you direct to a point on the ILS approach. You're doing 250, and if they don't tell you to slow down (sometimes they do, of course) and you're still doing 250, you blow through the final approach course. And that can be a problem with so many approaches in use.

Recently flying into HOU, same thing- 250 kts, cleared direct to a fix on the ILS- with a 90-degree intercept. We were a getting close so I dialed it back and ATC never said anything. (In the original post example, when I slowed, DFW ATC questioned my speed and said to maintain 250 again)
 
dustoff17 said:
I agree with @Autothrust Blue here. To the OP, I wouldn't think that you would want to INCREASE to 250 after Point B (in your example) as 230 would have been the last assigned speed
Click to expand...
You can slow me down as much as you want in the terminal area (I mean, obviously, within the reasonable capability of the aircraft), but any speed increase upon arrival will be met with a certain amount of caterwauling/"new plan, eh?". Especially if I configured the airplane to fly at 170 knots and suddenly you 'operationally require' 250.
 
Well unless they say something, I'd never slow that drastically. But 250 and blowing through the final approach course, or even 230 and not cleared for a visual yet.. you want to slow and get flaps in.
I've seen several captains slow on their own, ATC said nothing, but I've also had a captain tell me not to slow down since our last speed on the STAR was 250.
I know the easiest thing is to ask, and verify, but I thought there'd be a clear cut answer on it.
And as I said in the first post, the situation arose from being at a STAR speed of 250, but cleared to a point on the ILS, therefore eliminating the next STAR fix that had a 230 speed.
 
Climb/Descend Via FAQ from the FAA
2. Q. I am on an ATC assigned vector and have been issued a speed assignment. Subsequently, ATC clears me direct to a waypoint on a SID and instructs me to “Climb Via” SID. What speed do I maintain?

A. If the controller did not provide any additional “qualifying” instructions, such as “maintain two hundred fifty knots until (WP Name),” you may adjust speed at your discretion, but are required to comply with any upcoming speed restrictions.

3. Q. Just after crossing a speed restricted fix of 280 KT on a STAR, ATC assigns me a heading and altitude to maintain, what speed should I maintain?

A. The published speed is cancelled. Speed is at pilot’s discretion unless ATC has assigned a speed. 4. Q. What is 91.117?

A. Sec. 91.117 — Aircraft speed.

(a) Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator, no person may operate an aircraft below 10,000 feet MSL at an indicated airspeed of more than 250 knots.

5. Q. Just after crossing a speed restricted fix of 230 KT on a SID, ATC assigns me a heading and altitude to maintain. However, what speed should I maintain?

A. In this case, you have passed the waypoint with the published speed restriction. You can accelerate up to 250 KIAS below 10,000 feet MSL. If you are re-cleared on the SID, comply with any published speeds, unless the controller advises you to “delete speed restrictions,” or assigns you a speed to maintain.
Click to expand...
 
wish that link still worked. Last CA I flew with slowed on his own after last STAR fix; ATC said nothing..
When I did that, they got pissed ("what speed are you flying? ..oh, well ok. Just no slower than that until I advise you!"
When I didn't slow and maintained speed, CA got on me about needing to configure.
Can't win for losing sometimes.
 
Once you are vectored off the STAR the STAR specific restrictions no longer apply. As a general rule I would maintain no faster than the last STAR speed and slow when I am approaching a point that I expect to be vectored onto final. This requires some situational awareness but any jet pilot should be able to know when to expect the next phase of flight.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top