Sport lites...

Thunder-Robo

Thunder-Robo

Well-Known Member
woohooo! Let's buy a new fleet of A/C just for the ppl students!

okay, i know they're no where close... so.... carry on.
 
If I was to make a guess, they'd be buying one of them for spin purposes, and the fact that there's 5 of them here at once flying all day for 3 days, makes me inclined to believe this isn't one of those "we're showing up to show off one of our shiny new toys in the hopes UND might decide they like it" but more as "we're here cause UND sent us an RFP and there may be a sell."
 
Got to do one of the demo flights in the DA-20...nobody's told us lowly CFIs what the exact plan for the LSA fleet would be, but talking to faculty members the word is that 102 would be done in an LSA if they decide to buy. The DA-20's the only non-LSA that they're evaluating.
 
In my opinion, this could be a great thing to really cut down the program costs of 102. From what I have been told, by Roesler himself, it would be the 102 program. That is why the are not taking delivery of anymore C-172. Also, this is the reason they are not getting rid of anymore Warriors until 2011 when they make their decision. All the faculty/instructors that are evaluating the aircraft this week will write a report on the aircraft. The best 3 will be invited back in the wintertime for the real tests.
 
What are they looking at, for those of us that are not at UND? If I were a student, I'd be totally happy at the prospective of having something cheaper to fly, because then its cheaper to get ratings in.
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
What are they looking at, for those of us that are not at UND? If I were a student, I'd be totally happy at the prospective of having something cheaper to fly, because then its cheaper to get ratings in.
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DA-20 (non-LSA), Cessna Skycatcher, Piper Sport, Glasair (maybe), and one more, not sure of the name, but it as winglets that look like airbus.
 
Saw the Piper Sport broken on taxiway Bravo today. The guys pulled it back to Bravo ramp. No towbar necessary.

I believe the major problem with the Skycatcher right now is the lack of a window defrost.
 
middies10 said:
DA-20 (non-LSA), Cessna Skycatcher, Piper Sport, Glasair (maybe), and one more, not sure of the name, but it as winglets that look like airbus.
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All of those sound like a better deal than flying a 172. Personally, I think its a good idea to have various planes in the training fleet, in order to allow students to get experience to different airplanes. Nothing worse than having a guy that has a total of 275 hours, with it in 2 planes, 172 and PA28R. Get experience in a bunch of things, in order to work on the basic skills more.

I'll be interested to see what UND thinks of the Rotax, seeing as it powers 2 of those 5 listed.
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
All of those sound like a better deal than flying a 172. Personally, I think its a good idea to have various planes in the training fleet, in order to allow students to get experience to different airplanes. Nothing worse than having a guy that has a total of 275 hours, with it in 2 planes, 172 and PA28R. Get experience in a bunch of things, in order to work on the basic skills more.

I'll be interested to see what UND thinks of the Rotax, seeing as it powers 2 of those 5 listed.
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Actually I think 102 in the light sports, jumping up to 221 in the Cessna's would be a good jump, with the Arrow going away, right now the first jump is from the Cessna to the Seminole, a pretty big jump for someone who has never done a jump before, and the LSA might make it a little easier since they've already had the experience of going up to a little more airplane.
 
The winter tests will be the deal sealer. That is what has limited the fleet options in the past. There was a period of time where UND had some TB9s or TB10, I don't remember which (probably the TB9), when Cessna stopped making trainers a while back. They weren't a big success because they didn't have interior insulation. It was just bare metal and it frosted up inside. On the plus side, you could scrape the frost off and make a sno-cone :rawk:
 
gotWXdagain said:
Actually I think 102 in the light sports, jumping up to 221 in the Cessna's would be a good jump, with the Arrow going away, right now the first jump is from the Cessna to the Seminole, a pretty big jump for someone who has never done a jump before, and the LSA might make it a little easier since they've already had the experience of going up to a little more airplane.
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I think having any of those airplanes would be a good addition to a private training course. Heck, almost anything is harder to fly than 172. Personally, I like the DA-20 out of the 5, but its probably the most expensive in the competition too. If (and only if) UND is thinking, perhaps they could pick up one of the LSA's, and then market a cheaper alternative to getting a basic pilot certificate for non-aviation majors. If you could get people in and out with a sport pilot certificate for 5 grand, you might see more college kids do it.

Anybody happen to know which Flight Design they're looking at (the CTSW or CTLS). From what I've heard, the CTLS is a much better airplane, and isn't nearly as quirky on landing as the CTSW is. Of all the planes I've ever flown, I hate landing the CTSW most of all.
 
roundout said:
Well the Diamond guys know a thing or two about cold weather ops, eh?
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Having flown a DA-20 on a day that was right about 10 degree's, it was awesome once you got the thing running. Solo, full fuel, I was getting crazy performance (almost 140 KIAS). Sun was out, and it got toasty in the cabin in a hurry, even without using the heater.
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
Having flown a DA-20 on a day that was right about 10 degree's, it was awesome once you got the thing running. Solo, full fuel, I was getting crazy performance (almost 140 KIAS). Sun was out, and it got toasty in the cabin in a hurry, even without using the heater.
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140!!!! I did my training in a DA-20 C1 and never saw more than 125 ever! You sure your not stretching that a TINY bit :D
 
middies10 said:
140!!!! I did my training in a DA-20 C1 and never saw more than 125 ever! You sure your not stretching that a TINY bit :D
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Sorry, looked at the picture wrong. 135 KIAS, 4700 MSL, 2800RPM, in a 50 fpm climb. I was totally out of nose down trim, as was usually the case when I was flying that plane solo.

I know of a guy who has a different propeller (STC'd, from MT Prop), wheel pants, and keeps it really clean, and gets 145-148 KTAS, depending on loading. That's really moving along for a DA-20.
 
ScoutFlyer said:
The winter tests will be the deal sealer. That is what has limited the fleet options in the past. There was a period of time where UND had some TB9s or TB10, I don't remember which (probably the TB9), when Cessna stopped making trainers a while back. They weren't a big success because they didn't have interior insulation. It was just bare metal and it frosted up inside. On the plus side, you could scrape the frost off and make a sno-cone :rawk:
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TB9. One of my former instrument students owns N150ND. I hate that airplane. I have too tall of a torso and too short of legs for the TB9s. That, and the heater didn't work worth much even in a Mississippi winter. I can't imagine what a North Dakota winter would be like.
 
Ive done a decent amount of flight instruction in a Flight Design CT-SW and I dont think it would be the best aircraft to use for primary instruction. I had 2 primary students in it, and they both had a hell of a time getting landings down. Its a very touchy aircraft, higly sensitive to control inputs. Its unfortunately somewhat fragile too. I havnt flown any of the other LSAs mentioned, but Ive flown a Remos which was slightly eaasier to land.

The only good training thing about the CT is the chute.....
 
SleipnirPilot said:
The only good training thing about the CT is the chute.....
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I don't think I'd say that's the only good thing, but sure, one of the few good things. Its fast, for sure, considering what its working with. Has decent range, considering the limitations on it. Its fun to fly (at least for me it was), but like you said, it is incredibly hard to land. It floats a ton if you're fast, and if you get slow at all, it isn't going to be a good sight. Couple that with the somewhat non-traditional sight picture (panel sits way, way lower than anything else I've looked at), and the large flaps and drooping ailerons, and you've got a recipe for disaster, if you aren't on your game. When I was getting checked out in a CTSW, I thought it was crazy that the FBO wanted 5 hours dual prior to solo. I'm glad they did it that way, as it took me all of those 5 hours to be to the point of being to the point I felt safe landing the thing.

Oh, another "good" point is, if you happen to prop strike the thing, you don't have to tear the engine down. I know one that had a prop strike incident, and they had to shut the engine off with the key. Great thing about the Rotax, I suppose.
 
Good points, It is fast, its got some quasi TAA stuff. The one I flew had the Dynon EFIS. The Auto Pilot is worthless, at least the one in the SW I flew. Couldnt hold altitude for crap, espcially in turbulence. The main issue I have with it also is that its a stick and at least for me its got a boat load of negative transfer.

I started flying gliders at 14. Stick is flown with the right hand. We all know when flying for the left seat in a yoke aicraft you use your left hand. Take someone like me who flys a stick with the right, and make him fly in the left seat of a CT its like trying to throw a baseball with your opposite hand, which is odd because I can fly a yoke with the left no problem at all.

Whenever I had to fly the CT solo I'd always fly from the right seat, just way more comfortable for me
 
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