OldTownPilot
Well-Known Member
PIT is not the only airport that does that
BHB does too 3.5% of all sales. And its more like 7% because all of our MX and fuel is charged 3.5% too.
Speaking of Regional Pay...
- Thread starter Airdale
- Start date
PIT is not the only airport that does that
BHB does too 3.5% of all sales. And its more like 7% because all of our MX and fuel is charged 3.5% too.
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
Well if they could do that they would I think. Management must feel they cannot, so therefore instead of losing money in that market they are pulling out.
That is what economics 101 texts print. The reality, IMO, is that management's job is to maximize the (political) influence and wealth of the management team.
However, it would be too unpopular to say so. So they say "maximize stockholder wealth" and give themselves stock options and long-term incentive plans linked to returns to shareholders, but leveraged (i.e. if the shareholder gets 10% more, management gets 50% more).
It is NOT about the stockholder. If you doubt this, buy 100 shares of a company's stock, go to a shareholders meeting and try to ask the CEO the blunt question: "My 100 shares gained x% in the past year (including dividends). How much did your accumulated vested and non-vested interest in the company appreciate during the past year?"
You will not get an answer. You will not even get a response. However, the truth is that management gets leveraged returns. They get much more than the shareholders.
:yup: What do you smoke?
It takes 6 months and $60'000 to go from zero hours to FO. Do you really think that the average FO adds as much value as an engineer, accountant, lawyer, nurse, marketing guy, etc. that studies for 4+ years at many multiples the cost of becoming a pilot?
The argument about the cost of the equipment and the value of the lives does not hold water. Airline procedures are responsible for the safety of the equipment and preserving the lives. The value added by the crew is "high tech truck driver".
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
...well, with that attitude, we will never get there and what *might* one day be a reality. Never truly will be!
SmoothLanderJ
Well-Known Member
I like the way that sounds......and thats STILL too low really. But, it would be a start.
mattp1803
Well-Known Member
:banghead:Look man, not everyone can be a pilot. I know that might sound like a shock to some people, but not everyone can do it. In my opinion being an airline pilot is just as much, if not more of a specialty job then being an "engineer, accountant, lawyer, nurse, marketing guy, etc." If you are going to be an airline pilot you must be able to hold a 1st class medical. If your health goes sour, you can kiss your career good bye. An airline pilot must always be concerned about their health, including vision and hearing. I honestly don't even see how you can say that the argument about flying thousands of lives around a year "does not hold water". So far I have completed a 4 year bachelor’s degree and am now spending thousands of dollars on flight training. Besides devoting countless hours to studying for both college and flying, I feel that my future profession does deserve some respect. When ever I do make it to the airlines, I feel that I should deserve better wages along with thousands of other pilots who should be getting better pay. How is an Airline pilot expected to be able to live off of $20,000 (and some places lower) first year? Fortunately, I am single and don’t have to provide for a wife and kids…yet.
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
Look man, not everyone can be a pilot. I know that might sound like a shock to some people, but not everyone can do it. In my opinion being an airline pilot is just as much, if not more of a specialty job then being an "engineer, accountant, lawyer, nurse, marketing guy, etc." If you are going to be an airline pilot you must be able to hold a 1st class medical. If your health goes sour, you can kiss your career good bye. An airline pilot must always be concerned about their health, including vision and hearing. I honestly don't even see how you can say that the argument about flying thousands of lives around a year "does not hold water". So far I have completed a 4 year bachelor’s degree and am now spending thousands of dollars on flight training. Besides devoting countless hours to studying for both college and flying, I feel that my future profession does deserve some respect. When ever I do make it to the airlines, I feel that I should deserve better wages along with thousands of other pilots who should be getting better pay. How is an Airline pilot expected to be able to live off of $20,000 (and some places lower) first year? Fortunately, I am single and don’t have to provide for a wife and kids…yet.
That post just earned you a slot in my phone. It's a privilege, you know
PM me your number, let talk bout your training, Skymates and everything else in between!
mattp1803
Well-Known Member
That post just earned you a slot in my phone. It's a privilege, you know
PM me your number, let talk bout your training, Skymates and everything else in between!
I do feel privileged now! Haha. PM sent.
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
Seggy
Well-Known Member
You are on a board that has primarily pilots and you are calling us 'high tech truck drivers'?!?!?!?!
Have you ever been in a crew scenario? Have you ever been with an experienced crew when crap hits the fan? You have NO right with your experience level to be calling crews what you did. The value of the crew is invaluable to having the safe air system we do.
Considering most pilots do or will have (and most regionals and all majors expect a college degree or some college) and with all the training and experience that is required, I think FOs should start at least above the National poverty income of $32,000.
In CA a garbage man and bus driver makes between $60k and $100k depending on seniority.
Pretty sad that I have a technical 4 year B.S. degree and will be spending over $50k for training and it will take me longer to make what a garbage man makes in my county after I get my first professional flying job
In CA a garbage man and bus driver makes between $60k and $100k depending on seniority.
Pretty sad that I have a technical 4 year B.S. degree and will be spending over $50k for training and it will take me longer to make what a garbage man makes in my county after I get my first professional flying job
As a pilot you WILL get a lot of respect. Pilots are very highly respected. Their passengers respect them and trust them with their lives. Their employers trust them with expensive equipment. Their friends think they're awesome. Chicks dig the uniforms, etc. You'll get plenty of respect. Take all that respect to the bank.
Economically, what is the value added by a pilot? In the long term, pilots cannot earn more than the value they add to the economy.
IMO, from the perspective of passengers, management, newspaper reporters, FAA, accident investigators, insurance companies, time and investment required, etc. (i.e. anyone who may influence pilot wages), the value a pilot adds is similar to a high tech truck driver. Over the long term, that is where wages will be.
I think wages are currently lower than their long-term equilibrium level due to cyclical industry issues (9/11 and airline bankruptcies), and the oversupply of new pilots (i.e. the fact that "passion to fly" is such a powerful motivator for new pilots combined with the low cost of becoming a pilot).
For the forseeable future there will be an oversupply of new pilots because the "entry barriers" are low (6 months and $60'000 is NOT a high entry barrier, AOPA continues big recruiting campaigns for new pilots, etc.). This oversupply will limit the upside to the gradual elimination / end of 9/11 issues and bankruptcies.
If wages recover by 20% or so (which is a decent sized correction in any market), they'll be a lot closer to their long term equilibrium value. Will that make pilots happy? Probably not. But that is how society values us, even if we wish it were different.
It's just my opinion.
If society valued pilots as highly as you do, then pilots would be paid more. However. . . society seems to be treating pilots like truck drivers.
Sorry about the rude awakening, but a reality check seems necessary to some peoples opinions about what pilots should earn.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
Nice ramblings.
I have an idea. After I close the door before flight, why don't I go in the back and ask the passengers how valuable we are right now to the individuals that are on board the plane.
Then we can call their loved ones and ask how valuable we are to them.
I am sure their answers will throw your economic BullCrap ramblings out the window.
Snuggle
Well-Known Member
What's with the emotional intensity?
The situation you describe is a hostage situation. Those specific individuals will probably pass around a hat to collect wallets and watches to demonstrate how much they value your services. However, the next time they fly they will fly a different airline, which shows how they truly value your services.
Snuggle
Well-Known Member
You obviously wouldn't know. Some of us actually take pride in what we do. We are professionals, day in and day out people trust us with their lives. Sorry, but I don't view myself as a "high tech truck driver". Anyone who does doesn't belong in my seat IMO
Seggy
Well-Known Member
When I am talking to passengers while deadheading, in the terminal, and when I tell people what I do they immediately think I am living on rich and easy street.
They are thinking that because of the respect they have for pilots. Respect a lot of times translates to money.
If they find out how much I truly make they are in shock that we are paid so little.
Passengers know that our lives are in their hands and they trust that to us. I take that in high regard and will do everything I can do within my power to make sure it gets done. There is more than an economic equation going on here. It is a trust. They trust me to get them from point A to B safely. If I break that trust I didn't do what they trusted me to do. It makes me puke when I have someone relate MY profession to an economic rambling like you did.
Being a professional aviator is an emotional equation, not an economical one. At the end of that emotional equation is TRUST. Can't put a price on that.
They are thinking that because of the respect they have for pilots. Respect a lot of times translates to money.
If they find out how much I truly make they are in shock that we are paid so little.
Passengers know that our lives are in their hands and they trust that to us. I take that in high regard and will do everything I can do within my power to make sure it gets done. There is more than an economic equation going on here. It is a trust. They trust me to get them from point A to B safely. If I break that trust I didn't do what they trusted me to do. It makes me puke when I have someone relate MY profession to an economic rambling like you did.
Being a professional aviator is an emotional equation, not an economical one. At the end of that emotional equation is TRUST. Can't put a price on that.