Southwest Airline and Boeing 737?
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Minuteman
I HAVE STRONG OPINIONS ABOUT AUTOMOTIVE LIGHTING!
But seriously tho, Southwest is so big and dumb and goofy these days they might as well be Just Another Legacy Carrier.
"Oooh! We ran a couple of planes off the end of some runways, dare we consider activating this strange 'autobrake' feature?"
"Agony, RNP! Dare we consider autothrottles? Will people still think we're 'Nuts'?!"
"I know, let's outsource our IT to Southeast Asia, that seems to be a thing!"
"A fourth F/A? Taking a 737 outside the US!? Never, we'll have to acquire another AOC and let them be our labratory for this thing called 'limits'."
The only good thing Southwest has done in the last decade is calm their gate lice problem into some kind of sequential boarding process.
"Oooh! We ran a couple of planes off the end of some runways, dare we consider activating this strange 'autobrake' feature?"
"Agony, RNP! Dare we consider autothrottles? Will people still think we're 'Nuts'?!"
"I know, let's outsource our IT to Southeast Asia, that seems to be a thing!"
"A fourth F/A? Taking a 737 outside the US!? Never, we'll have to acquire another AOC and let them be our labratory for this thing called 'limits'."
The only good thing Southwest has done in the last decade is calm their gate lice problem into some kind of sequential boarding process.
hook_dupin
Well-Known Member
They also made money. I consider that to be a huge achievement considering the last decade.
Minuteman
I HAVE STRONG OPINIONS ABOUT AUTOMOTIVE LIGHTING!
Naw, you're right, I got on a bit of a roll. Southwest hasn't furloughed (that I know of?) and hasn't gone bankrupt. That is very good.
I think they have a huuuge dogma problem. They do a lot of innovative things to solve new problems, and that becomes the way to address that thing. There are a lot of decision-makers at Southwest who seem to have flourished with a parsimonious 25-airplane, 300-employee mentality who are now running a 600-airplane, 15,000-employee international operation.
When you could be very selective hire only crews and ground employees that met an ideal and could receive lots of attention on the "right" way to do things, that's great. When you're running a hiring class a week (maybe not for pilots), you run into the same problems as any other large airline; "not my problem," "what's my liability if I offer to help out?," and there are just going to be some dullards in the group (not specific to Southwest). But then there's that extra layer of "we've always been different, it must be better!"
I think they have a huuuge dogma problem. They do a lot of innovative things to solve new problems, and that becomes the way to address that thing. There are a lot of decision-makers at Southwest who seem to have flourished with a parsimonious 25-airplane, 300-employee mentality who are now running a 600-airplane, 15,000-employee international operation.
When you could be very selective hire only crews and ground employees that met an ideal and could receive lots of attention on the "right" way to do things, that's great. When you're running a hiring class a week (maybe not for pilots), you run into the same problems as any other large airline; "not my problem," "what's my liability if I offer to help out?," and there are just going to be some dullards in the group (not specific to Southwest). But then there's that extra layer of "we've always been different, it must be better!"
Bigey
Well-Known Member
Aroo (as DT would say)?
They haven't furloughed and you're right, haven't gone bankrupt. That's no easy task despite the constant challenges that airlines face. Furthermore, it seems people are collectively pissed that "they're no cheaper than other airlines...booo." I say congratulations SWA -- they've done this magical thing called selective value. They've always represented the "cheaper" fares from the get go and did a well job of keeping off travel websites (to avoid price comparisons and unnecessary fees/commissions). After all the years of this marketing, people instinctively believe SWA has the lowest fares, and if not exactly the lowest, a very good fare. Hell, it's even built a hell of a brand loyalty. People know other airlines are cheaper but because of either their experience on SWA or there prior bargains (I've heard both numerous times from passengers) they return to SWA.
Now, I'm not sure what dogma problem you talk about. Could they possibly update some of their computer systems for operations? Sure. Are there other ways of doing boarding? Absolutely. Is the SWA way really the only way? Not at all. However, has their system failed yet? Financially speaking, no. And first and foremost, SWA is a business. As long as they have money flowing in to pay the bills and their shareholders get a return, they're doing just fine.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Why do I get the sense someone is taking a post in this thread a touch too personally?
hook_dupin
Well-Known Member
[quote="Bigey, post: 2225443, member: 2734"Hell, it's even built a hell of a brand loyalty. People know other airlines are cheaper but because of either their experience on SWA or there prior bargains (I've heard both numerous times from passengers) they return to SWA.[/quote]
I see South West and Jet Blue as being the only domestic airlines with any brand value. The value of a brand identity can be incredible....just ask Phil Knight.
I see South West and Jet Blue as being the only domestic airlines with any brand value. The value of a brand identity can be incredible....just ask Phil Knight.
ChasenSFO
hen teaser
Alaska has it in the Pac NW, Frontier used to have it in DEN but...not so sure anymore.
Southwest is often $100+ more expensive from the Bay Area than United and Virgin America, but with less service. If you do check bags, it'll about even out. If you don't, you're paying more money for the same flight. Either way, they really can't compete with the service of Virgin America and the perks of being a United frequent flyer. I really don't hate Southwest, but I hate how they're trying to fool the world into thinking one thing with their advertising and media exposure when their intentions are clear as day. "We're going to build an ATL mega hub(just kidding)", "We're going to keep the 717s(...flying by sending them to Delta)", "Bags fly free(unless you're on any Southwest flight operated by AirTran)". Stuff like that. If you're an LCC, great, low fares no service. If you want to charge legacy fares, you had better have legacy perks. I also dislike how the media makes a huge deal about strings of incidents with most carriers, but is quick to drop stories about Southwest screwing up and almost never dares question the safety of the airline despite how often they're in the news. Makes you wonder.
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Springer
Well-Known Member
Bigey
Well-Known Member
Meh, I'm really not. I'm speaking about SWA purely on the sense of business. I find it pretty fascinating how they've been able to create this pretty intense following and remained profitable throughout the entire time.
Now, if I was speaking about my experience while there, it'd be a little different. But this post, merely an outsider looking in and praising the business sense.
Well, it's like In N Out Burgers and midwesterners.
OMG! In-N-Out burger! That's the best hamburger (it's good, but the 'best' — nah) and all they serve is burgers.
So there's never any complaints about hot dogs - no interline agreements with other airlines so you know you have to get your own bag.
No complaints about bad airline food - no meals
No complaints about feeling gouged - You have to go to their website to see the fares and the presumption is always that they're the lowest price.
The environment - pilots wearing goofy ties and FA's that look like they're dentist office receptionists with the khakis and polo shirts so they don't have that 'stuffy legacy carrier' image (invariably, those legacy carriers have to compete on a global scale and we're still vastly underdressed in comparison to most other global carriers)
They've taught people to have different expectations. If American told people that they'd get the best seat by standing in a corral an hour before the flight even arrives at the gate, people would lose their minds on Twitter. Meanwhile, people lovingly corral themselves waving their "A" boarding group like they're the victors.
Eh… back to Buzzfeed for me.
OMG! In-N-Out burger! That's the best hamburger (it's good, but the 'best' — nah) and all they serve is burgers.
So there's never any complaints about hot dogs - no interline agreements with other airlines so you know you have to get your own bag.
No complaints about bad airline food - no meals
No complaints about feeling gouged - You have to go to their website to see the fares and the presumption is always that they're the lowest price.
The environment - pilots wearing goofy ties and FA's that look like they're dentist office receptionists with the khakis and polo shirts so they don't have that 'stuffy legacy carrier' image (invariably, those legacy carriers have to compete on a global scale and we're still vastly underdressed in comparison to most other global carriers)
They've taught people to have different expectations. If American told people that they'd get the best seat by standing in a corral an hour before the flight even arrives at the gate, people would lose their minds on Twitter. Meanwhile, people lovingly corral themselves waving their "A" boarding group like they're the victors.
Eh… back to Buzzfeed for me.
Bigey
Well-Known Member
This further explains my fascination. If the people that flew Southwest switched carriers for a day and went to say, American, they would complain up and down if asked to do the same stuff asked of by Southwest. Furthermore, they would continue the complaints once on board with the inflight service. Southwest has created an image or reputation of doing no wrong...
🦈💜
Well-Known Member
Hm. I've flown southwest a bunch for business and pleasure, and ... maybe I'm a sucker, but I generally can't find any fares lower than Southwest (with baggage taken into account), I like the lack of classful seating, since I don't have EliteWTFOMGMVPBBQ status and barely any corporate travel (in the tech industry) is first or business class for anyone without 'Executive' or 'Chief' somewhere in their title. I think the service is fantastic and polite, the seats are generally a bit more comfortable than many of the cattle-class seats on legacy carriers, and they historically haven't screw me around with fees, weird-ass fare classes, or anything nasty like that. Granted, my experience with southwest is changing as they start to add paid services... but that's how it's been.
I've had a similar experience with Virgin America, and I preferentially fly them anywhere I can, even though they're airbus. Yes, they have a first class cabin, but they have inexpensive upgrades for available seats, the first class tickets are reasonable to purchase outright, and there aren't a billion business douches flying on them.
All that said, I'm going to start putting a lot more time in on AS, for obvious reasons, so I'm getting to know them a bit better. So far, they seem like a decently classy organization. And I've had several good experiences with DL—especially the time I bought a first-class ticket outright to ATL—and the other majors...but honestly, in the end, I've enjoyed every trip I've taken on Southwest, and I've never felt "dicked around" by them. Historically, they've always been friendly to me from front desk to gate agent, cabin crew, etc. Also, their mileage program is the only one useful enough for me to have been able to use, though I hear they changed the rates recently.
If all that makes me a "sucker" who's bought into the "brand" being sold, then hey, oops. All I know is that I always check all the fares available when booking a trip, and SW consistently has been the cheapest, especially with baggage taken into account. That's not the only criteria—I generally wouldn't fly RyanAir, for example—but I think they have historically had a good product.
~Fox
PS. ... of course, we all know that K5 is the best.
I've had a similar experience with Virgin America, and I preferentially fly them anywhere I can, even though they're airbus. Yes, they have a first class cabin, but they have inexpensive upgrades for available seats, the first class tickets are reasonable to purchase outright, and there aren't a billion business douches flying on them.
All that said, I'm going to start putting a lot more time in on AS, for obvious reasons, so I'm getting to know them a bit better. So far, they seem like a decently classy organization. And I've had several good experiences with DL—especially the time I bought a first-class ticket outright to ATL—and the other majors...but honestly, in the end, I've enjoyed every trip I've taken on Southwest, and I've never felt "dicked around" by them. Historically, they've always been friendly to me from front desk to gate agent, cabin crew, etc. Also, their mileage program is the only one useful enough for me to have been able to use, though I hear they changed the rates recently.
If all that makes me a "sucker" who's bought into the "brand" being sold, then hey, oops. All I know is that I always check all the fares available when booking a trip, and SW consistently has been the cheapest, especially with baggage taken into account. That's not the only criteria—I generally wouldn't fly RyanAir, for example—but I think they have historically had a good product.
~Fox
PS. ... of course, we all know that K5 is the best.
wainscottbl
Well-Known Member
I like Southwest, especially for a quick flight somewhere when you are more interested in being there than how you get there. At least the last time I flew SWA they did not have TVs on the back of the seats like Delta but I always get a window seat and the service is polite. A friend who likes to travel with his seemingly infinite supply of money seems to use them a lot. He even does free advertising for them pretty much by telling how he got to this place or that place on one of Southwest's great deals. Southwest is who I would pick if I wanted to get to the vacation spot without the luxury, especially when you are working for $9.00 an hour. But as a family we almost always fly Delta, I think. My dad has this thing with the credit card that for every dollar he spends he gets a mile or something like that. Since he uses it for business purchases that can cost thousands of dollars (buying wire and electrical stuff or commercial and industrial jobs) it adds up. I don't think he even knows how good a deal Southwest is because he thinks at least he is getting such a great deal from his little mileage program with his purchases. But I am weary of those things. "What's in your wallet?" and all that stuff. I have to buy something to get something else. What clever usury! But people fall for the marketing tricks. Only way I figure that is worth anything is someone like my dad who does not actually pay for since he ends up charging the customer for the purchases. So they end up playing for all or most of his plane tickets. I like Southwest for the simple way they work and costs. I also like how they use all 737s because then I am always happy with my seat, which is almost always a window seat.