Soon to be retired USAF loadmaster lookin to fly

STRAY

STRAY

Member
Hello everybody, first post here:

I am eligible to retire from the AF as an E-7, possibly E-8 in less than 3 years - I will be 38 years old then. I am looking to (eventually) fly for the airlines. I was wondering if I will be too old to be taken seriously amongst other potential candidates? What my career path MAY look like for starting so late. Should I go the Part 61 FBO or 141 ATP school route. I'm not trying to get rich, and I know the salary is terrible, but I've been around (helo & fixed wing maintenance for 10 yrs; now C-17 loadmaster) aircraft all my adult life and always wanted to fly anyway (Air Force brat too). I figure I should be able to survive on retirement income and entry level pilot income, plus my wife makes almost as much as I currently make. Do the airlines care much about degrees? I have 2 aircraft related associates degrees and 70% done with my Pro Aero from ERAU. After looking through the forums, the career outlook looks terrible and demoralizing. But I just saw a report that we will soon have a severe pilot shortage. Doesn't really jive with what I've been reading here though.
 
Welcome to the forums I see this is your first post and thanks for your service, I'm an E-4 currently in the USAR myself... Your age shouldn't be a factor when it comes to getting hired, there is mandatory retirement for Part 121 Carriers (the airlines and scheduled carriers like FedEx, UPS) at age 65 but you still have 27 years ahead of you before your required to hang your hat. That said you could still go corporate after that if you wanted although most companies don't like to have pilots in the cockpit past 70 (with pax anyways) even if they can pass a medical exam.

As for schooling, its a pretty loaded and complex question. I would start with your PPL at a Part 61 school and take it step by step. After that if your 100% sure your ready to drink from the fire hose go to a 141 school, and the only reason I recommend a 141 school is because you have the GI Bill which gives you almost free degree. If you already used the GI Bill stay Part 61 and pay as you go stay away from the debt associated with a flight "college" as much as possible. I say this because I'm paying back those loans from a major 4 year aviation college as we speak.

The airlines do care about degrees, but not what its in for the most part. Quite a few pilots hold degrees that major in business, accounting, financial, liberal arts, biology, or whatever. And that's only if the airline can attract candidates that have degrees, they take what they can get. Like now there is still a bit of a pilot overage (which is drying up slowly) but as time pass that will probably change and they'll take whoever. Also don't fall for the "preferential hiring agreements" most companies try to sell you on. While those hiring agreements do exist... the airlines by no means legally obligated to hire anyone from said school. Its just a gentlemen's agreement, the airlines hire who they want, when they want and it is usually a bit of luck and networking... just like in the military. Its pretty common for an airline to prefer 1200 total flight hours and 500 multi-engine, but all of a sudden somebody that knows somebody on the inside gets hired a with 800 hours and 200 multi... I got a job like this was back in 07 when I had about 500 hours...

As for the pilot shortage, there are some retirements coming up, some airlines are downsizing, others are planning on a lot of hiring. And then the price of gas which can be our friend or screw us (screwing us mostly in the last few years). The truth is IMO is that there will be a lot of demand, but the real question and goal for all of us is the quality of jobs available. I'd take a demand for 10,000 highly qualified highly paid captains for the majors than I would 100,000 medium to low quality crap schedule first officer positions flying for regionals and commuters.

That said take some time and search through the topics on this website, all these things have been debated over and over on quite a few threads on this site... Good luck and welcome to the industry if you choose to pursue a career path in Aviation!

Oh and one question... you mention retirement income... I always thought the retirement pay from the military doesn't kick in until 60 or 65?
 
HVYMETALDRVR said:
Oh and one question... you mention retirement income... I always thought the retirement pay from the military doesn't kick in until 60 or 65?
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Thanks for your thorough reply. I will continue to research as suggested. To answer your question: I'm active duty military. Active duty military starts collecting retirement checks as soon as we retire after attaining 20 years of service. The reserves and guard (depending on how much deployment credit they have) don't start collecting checks until 65. Thanks again!
 
Get as much of that ERAU 4 year done as you can before you have the flight experience to fly full-time. It will help a little.

IMO, for flight school, smaller is better. Find a good instructor who cares for each part of your training. Try your absolute best to avoid borrowing money. I joined flying clubs to help and used my GI Bill for some of it. It's hard to find a cheap club that has a good instructor AND is Part 141 approved for the GI Bill. Dover AFB used to be...
 
STRAY said:
Hello everybody, first post here:

I am eligible to retire from the AF as an E-7, possibly E-8 in less than 3 years - I will be 38 years old then. I am looking to (eventually) fly for the airlines. I was wondering if I will be too old to be taken seriously amongst other potential candidates? What my career path MAY look like for starting so late. Should I go the Part 61 FBO or 141 ATP school route. I'm not trying to get rich, and I know the salary is terrible, but I've been around (helo & fixed wing maintenance for 10 yrs; now C-17 loadmaster) aircraft all my adult life and always wanted to fly anyway (Air Force brat too). I figure I should be able to survive on retirement income and entry level pilot income, plus my wife makes almost as much as I currently make. Do the airlines care much about degrees? I have 2 aircraft related associates degrees and 70% done with my Pro Aero from ERAU. After looking through the forums, the career outlook looks terrible and demoralizing. But I just saw a report that we will soon have a severe pilot shortage. Doesn't really jive with what I've been reading here though.
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Hey man, welcome to the best aviation site out there. If your goal is to fly at the airlines then go for it. Yes this industry is very unstable but it's all about luck. I know a few guys who started training in their mid 40s who are now at the regionals. If money/financial stability is not a major concern then go all in. The pay at the regionals as a FO will stink. If you can get in at the right time your QOL will be a factor. I started my training at 28 and I'm at what most people would consider a major by age 35. I got lucky by networking and this is the key to this business. As far as training go part 61. I went 141 and regret it to this day. Get a good flight instructor and knock those certificates/ratings out. Also remember the airlines are not the only good flying gigs. PM if you want for some more in depth talk. Good luck.
 
falconvalley said:
Get as much of that ERAU 4 year done as you can before you have the flight experience to fly full-time. It will help a little.

IMO, for flight school, smaller is better. Find a good instructor who cares for each part of your training. Try your absolute best to avoid borrowing money. I joined flying clubs to help and used my GI Bill for some of it. It's hard to find a cheap club that has a good instructor AND is Part 141 approved for the GI Bill. Dover AFB used to be...
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Thanks. No borrowing $$. Got it.
 
Pretty much my same plan. Have about 2-1/2 years left til retirement. All of the 20 will be with aircraft maintenance related, and 10+ of it will be Flight Engineer time on a 707.

Finishing up my Maintenance Management degree with ERAU now. Working my PPL, joined the CAP for the cheap instrument and flight hours for the next couple years. Hope to be around 200+ hours when I retire. Then, I'll enroll at University of Oklahoma to use the GI Bill in the Pilot degree and obtain licenses all the way through CFI and turbine transition. Thinking that should put me around the 500 hour mark by graduation. Between the PIC time and my 500 hours from FE experience, shouldn't be too long until an ATP license.

Hoping to find a nice corporate job flying and doing the A&P work as well...

Good luck to ya!
 
Hey there fellow Loadie! Welcome to JC. Looks like your question is answered but feel free to ask more!
As far negative and demoralizing - I guess I have not been in it long enough because I love it! Except the pay of course!
 
MercFE said:
Pretty much my same plan. Have about 2-1/2 years left til retirement. All of the 20 will be with aircraft maintenance related, and 10+ of it will be Flight Engineer time on a 707.

Finishing up my Maintenance Management degree with ERAU now. Working my PPL, joined the CAP for the cheap instrument and flight hours for the next couple years. Hope to be around 200+ hours when I retire. Then, I'll enroll at University of Oklahoma to use the GI Bill in the Pilot degree and obtain licenses all the way through CFI and turbine transition. Thinking that should put me around the 500 hour mark by graduation. Between the PIC time and my 500 hours from FE experience, shouldn't be too long until an ATP license.

Hoping to find a nice corporate job flying and doing the A&P work as well...

Good luck to ya!
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You have a good plan. There are a number of jobs that I would have liked to apply for (usually King Air pilot) but they wanted someone with an A&P too. Some advice: the good jobs where they want an A&P its usually because the aircraft is based in the boonies, and they want an A&P to maybe replace a landing light, or nav light OR MAYBE change the tires. There are some shady places who expect you to sign it off for 100 hour... a 1 person 100 hour on a king air without a full shop would take a long time!
 
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