So much for the military :-/

[bravodelta79]

Remember that to even become a pilot in the ANG/AFRC, you'll have to quit whatever your doing for at least two to three years for officer training, UPT, airframe training, misc training (survival, etc) and then seasoning at your home squadron. Those are all full-time commitments that would leave you zero time for another job.

You could resume your current job when you finished all your training.

I'm sure you know that to be a pilot in the AFRC/ANG, you won't be a "one weekend per month, two weeks per year" kinda guy...

 

[Hacker15e]

What's so difficult to comprehend about renouncing my American citizenship?

Never said I had trouble understanding why you want to keep both -- I do understand it completely. I have a friend who is a dual US/UK citizen, and I've had this same experience listening to him complain about it over a bar-top. Your experience of being a dual citizenship individual seeking commission as a US military officer is not unique.

I was pointing out that the US military has perfectly legitimate reasons for wanting US-only citizens filling the ranks of leadership positions.

There are requirements for entry to what you want to do, and you are *unwilling* to meet one of those requirements. Seems pretty simple to me. It's your choice, and you're choosing not to do it.[/quote]

 

[Zondaracer]

Hey don't be so discouraged. The military is not for everybody, but if you are deadset on being military, it can happen. First of all, about the vision thing, I have known guys with 20/100 uncorrected to get waivers to be a pilot. They were told they can't be pilots, but that they could be a navigator, and got a waiver while waiting nav training and then got upgraded.

Also, about the dual citizenship thing. The reason why that is an issue is because as a Pilot/Nav and various other AFSCs, you will need a Top Secret clearance. Foreigners are not privy to a majority of the classified information, so if you are a dual citizen, who is to say that you won't give your knowledge to your second alliance?

Anyhow, the dual citizenship aspect was not as big of a deal pre-9/11. I do know a guy who is a dual citizen and has a Top Secret clearance but he has a unique case. He is a dual citizen of USA and Brazil. When the Air Force told him that he had to renounce his brazilian citizenship, he tried and Brazil said no. So then the State Department called Brazil and Brazil said no. So he was required to cutup his passport in front of a US Citizenship and Immigration Services Officer (USCIS) to prove his loyalties to the US. He still loves Brazil, married a Brazilian girl, and plans on retiring in Brazil. The only problem is that US Citizens are required to acquire a visa before entering Brazil, and he can't get a visa because he's a Brazilian citizen, but he cut up his passport. That's another story in itself. What I'm saying is that you can ask Sweden if they would recognize a renouncement of your citizenship or not. If they don't recognize it, you would retain your Swedish citizenship even though you did everything in your power to renounce it. I don't think it would hurt to ask (and it depends how much you want to be in the military).

 

[SpiceWeasel]

Hey don't be so discouraged. The military is not for everybody, but if you are deadset on being military, it can happen. First of all, about the vision thing, I have known guys with 20/100 uncorrected to get waivers to be a pilot. They were told they can't be pilots, but that they could be a navigator, and got a waiver while waiting nav training and then got upgraded.

Also, about the dual citizenship thing. The reason why that is an issue is because as a Pilot/Nav and various other AFSCs, you will need a Top Secret clearance. Foreigners are not privy to a majority of the classified information, so if you are a dual citizen, who is to say that you won't give your knowledge to your second alliance?

Anyhow, the dual citizenship aspect was not as big of a deal pre-9/11. I do know a guy who is a dual citizen and has a Top Secret clearance but he has a unique case. He is a dual citizen of USA and Brazil. When the Air Force told him that he had to renounce his brazilian citizenship, he tried and Brazil said no. So then the State Department called Brazil and Brazil said no. So he was required to cutup his passport in front of a US Citizenship and Immigration Services Officer (USCIS) to prove his loyalties to the US. He still loves Brazil, married a Brazilian girl, and plans on retiring in Brazil. The only problem is that US Citizens are required to acquire a visa before entering Brazil, and he can't get a visa because he's a Brazilian citizen, but he cut up his passport. That's another story in itself. What I'm saying is that you can ask Sweden if they would recognize a renouncement of your citizenship or not. If they don't recognize it, you would retain your Swedish citizenship even though you did everything in your power to renounce it. I don't think it would hurt to ask (and it depends how much you want to be in the military).

That's what my next move would be... I need to find out from the Swedish consulate about that. And I'd hope they'd allow me to get a new passport once my service time was up (guard commitment is something like 6 years at a minimum)? Even if I "cut it up".... but maybe they wouldn't know. Thanks for the replies guys.

 

[///AMG]

First of all, about the vision thing, I have known guys with 20/100 uncorrected to get waivers to be a pilot. They were told they can't be pilots, but that they could be a navigator, and got a waiver while waiting nav training and then got upgraded.

Can't speak for the AF, but this would not be an option in Naval flight training. You can go as bad as 20/100 once you wing, but it is still 20/40 uncorr for the initial flight physical you must pass immediately before you start ground school/API.

Also, about the dual citizenship thing. The reason why that is an issue is because as a Pilot/Nav and various other AFSCs, you will need a Top Secret clearance. Foreigners are not privy to a majority of the classified information, so if you are a dual citizen, who is to say that you won't give your knowledge to your second alliance?

Many communities w/n mil aviation do not require TS clearance for pilots of FO's. There are of course several that do (EP-3, E-6, EA-6B) and I have heard that it is a little bit more common at the department head level (senior LT/LCDR/Major), but it is not a general requirement and I have plenty of friends who do not have the TS and still fly w/ wings. Maybe I am splitting hairs here, but I think the citizenship thing has a little bit less to do w/ the clearance than one might think, considering that we have granted foreign nationals clearances.

Otherwise I would concur, talk to your consulate and see what your options are. Also, you never know what you will want to do following the end of the obligation......perhaps in 12 years or whenever that date would come up, you will no longer feel the need to hold onto your other citizenship. I know that 10 years ago I felt differently about things than I do now. Just a thought

 

[Zondaracer]

Can't speak for the AF, but this would not be an option in Naval flight training. You can go as bad as 20/100 once you wing, but it is still 20/40 uncorr for the initial flight physical you must pass immediately before you start ground school/API.

Yeah waivers always change in the Air Force depending on the needs, and also what causes the bad vision. If you have 20/20 and it is caused by keratoconus, you can forget about it.

Many communities w/n mil aviation do not require TS clearance for pilots of FO's. There are of course several that do (EP-3, E-6, EA-6B) and I have heard that it is a little bit more common at the department head level (senior LT/LCDR/Major), but it is not a general requirement and I have plenty of friends who do not have the TS and still fly w/ wings. Maybe I am splitting hairs here, but I think the citizenship thing has a little bit less to do w/ the clearance than one might think, considering that we have granted foreign nationals clearances.

I am not sure how many AF pilot positions actually need TS clearances, but they require all Air Force UPT guys to get a clearance before starting.

 

[ppragman]

That's what my next move would be... I need to find out from the Swedish consulate about that. And I'd hope they'd allow me to get a new passport once my service time was up (guard commitment is something like 6 years at a minimum)? Even if I "cut it up".... but maybe they wouldn't know. Thanks for the replies guys.

I dunno dude, I knew a couple of russians who were flying for the airforce, as far as I know they were still not US citizens, or held dual citizenship, plus I know the army has a program for warrants cuz a friend of mine who was a South African citizen and was qualified but turned it down.

-pat

 

[Zondaracer]

I dunno dude, I knew a couple of russians who were flying for the airforce, as far as I know they were still not US citizens, or held dual citizenship.

-pat

I don't know dude, you should double check that. To be a pilot in the US Air Force, you have to be an officer, and you can't be an officer unless you are a US Citizen. Maybe they were enlisted?

If they had dual citizenship, then maybe. Russia does not acknowledge acquisition of another citizenship, so in effect, they could end up like my Brazilian friend.

 

[///AMG]

I am not sure how many AF pilot positions actually need TS clearances, but they require all Air Force UPT guys to get a clearance before starting.

Gotcha, must be another one of the many differences between the two services

As for the vision, that makes sense....I'm willing to bet that the AF pilot applicant pool is somewhat larger than that of our's, so higher screening standards would of course make sense to limit the number of selectees.

 

[ppragman]

I don't know dude, you should double check that. To be a pilot in the US Air Force, you have to be an officer, and you can't be an officer unless you are a US Citizen. Maybe they were enlisted?

If they had dual citizenship, then maybe. Russia does not acknowledge acquisition of another citizenship, so in effect, they could end up like my Brazilian friend.

That might have been it, however they also told me that since they weren't born in the states so they couldn't fly anything that could carry a nuke too, which was strange. She was an officer, and The South African was going to be a warrant.

 

[///AMG]

That might have been it, however they also told me that since they weren't born in the states so they couldn't fly anything that could carry a nuke too, which was strange. She was an officer, and The South African was going to be a warrant.

Where did you meet these people? I'm normally a little skeptical of folks anyways with unusual stories, and this would certainly raise my eyebrows

 

[ppragman]

Where did you meet these people? I'm normally a little skeptical of folks anyways with unusual stories, and this would certainly raise my eyebrows

The South African I met at my old job, and the russian was a pilot at an airshow, who turned out to be a friend of a friend, to be honest, I don't know a damn thing about the requirements, and there might be extra info I don't know, or extenuating circumstances, however, so take it with a grain of salt.

-pat

 

[///AMG]

The South African I met at my old job, and the russian was a pilot at an airshow, who turned out to be a friend of a friend, to be honest, I don't know a damn thing about the requirements, and there might be extra info I don't know, or extenuating circumstances, however, so take it with a grain of salt.

-pat

Extenuating circumstances like lying through their teeth? Depending on what type of a/c, maybe they were contract pilots of some sort. I know the Coasties use civilian contractors for some of their training and standardization stuff.....

 

[ppragman]

Extenuating circumstances like lying through their teeth? Depending on what type of a/c, maybe they were contract pilots of some sort. I know the Coasties use civilian contractors for some of their training and standardization stuff.....

Really? No idea, quite possibly lying through their teeth though. (the Afrikaaner) seemed like a pretty legit guy, but who knows, I sure as hell don't, I'm a U.S. citizen, so doesn't really affect me.

Not to thread hijack, but I'm probably going to go guard it up at the end of next semester, I'm pretty excited.

 

[///AMG]

Not to thread hijack, but I'm probably going to go guard it up at the end of next semester, I'm pretty excited.

Best of luck!

 

[Turbolag]

I had thought about the Air Force after college. I dug a little deeper to find out more. I didn't know that you need letters of recommendations, I saw that on this forum. I thought it would be fun to go to flight school and fly jets. However, I wouldn't really be willing to work in another field if I couldn't fly, so I scratched the idea of trying to enter the military. I read another topic in the military pilots section on this website and a member pointed out something that really opened my eyes. The service is about service, not self service. After I read that it kind of changed my mind about wanting to apply for flight school. No guarantee that I would even get to fly anyway. Oh well. I bet it would be fun flying in the F-18 Super Hornet pulling 11 G's :rawk:

Heycencal83406, are you an airline pilot? What made you contemplate joining the services? I was just wondering. Always nice to hear someone's story.
​

 

[SpiceWeasel]

I had thought about the Air Force after college. I dug a little deeper to find out more. I didn't know that you need letters of recommendations, I saw that on this forum. I thought it would be fun to go to flight school and fly jets. However, I wouldn't really be willing to work in another field if I couldn't fly, so I scratched the idea of trying to enter the military. I read another topic in the military pilots section on this website and a member pointed out something that really opened my eyes. The service is about service, not self service. After I read that it kind of changed my mind about wanting to apply for flight school. No guarantee that I would even get to fly anyway. Oh well. I bet it would be fun flying in the F-18 Super Hornet pulling 11 G's :rawk:

Heycencal83406, are you an airline pilot? What made you contemplate joining the services? I was just wondering. Always nice to hear someone's story. ​

Well.... I guess I'm an airline pilot. More like commuter/regional pilot, or whatever can of worms says I fly for the contractor of a major airline. I am considering the reseerves (ie not full time), because I would like to fly, or maybe get some computer certifications, serve (one of) my country(ies), and get some exercise. Therefore, I am considering any Guard unit, not just AF and aircrew, but since someone mentioned Navy, and my dad was in the Army. Any Guard unit would be interesting to learn about. I just want to be sure I can keep my current job, though of course understanding that my seniority would increase while gone on a long deployment, but not longevity.

To fly for the military would be nice, but it wouldn't be a make or break on me joining, as long as I could get something in my favor, while realizing they're not there to cater to favors.

 

[Turbolag]

Yea, I thought about the Air Guard also. Their base is right by the airport I go fly at. I wonder if you have to go through a rigorous ROTC training program. IT would be cool though to give something back and do something good for the country, and at the same time earn ME turbine hours!

 

[SpiceWeasel]

Yea, I thought about the Air Guard also. Their base is right by the airport I go fly at. I wonder if you have to go through a rigorous ROTC training program. IT would be cool though to give something back and do something good for the country, and at the same time earn ME turbine hours!

Well no, ROTC is a completely different animal IIRC. I'm pretty sure you do that in some sort of high school or college capacity.

 

[Turbolag]

Sorry, I don't know why I said ROTC, I meant the intro to the training, like boot camp.

Well anyway, good luck with making your decision. I hope everything works out for you