WacoFan
Bigly
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Sierra Academy of Aeronautics
- Thread starter jhugz
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WAFlyBoy
Well-Known Member
Hckey2477 said:
WacoFan said:
Would you say these people are "showing respect?"
jhugz said:
I agree. But doesn't the nature of the accident speak for itself? These comments add nothing but disgrace to the discussion.
R
Roger, Roger
Guest
We're treating it the way pilots always do...RIP, who effed up, learn what we can from it, realize that there but for the grace of God..., and move on. Realize that it'll happen to someone we know and love sooner or later-that's just the way this business is. One of my friends has now lost 2 instructors to accidents, and he jokes about it. No disrespect, just a way of dealing with it.
jhugz
Guppy gear swinger
Awful news.
Really? Maybe you should step up and be a little more respectful instead of just causing this thread to go flamebait.
SierraPilot123
Well-Known Member
Wow, that is horrible news to hear. Sierra was always very very big on safety at Livermore and Oakland. I never heard of any incident for all the time I was there. It was when they started hiring outside CFIs that we really saw things change and incidents begin to appear.
But this one seems to be linked to a student breaking the rules and not the instructors. R.I.P. Sierra does have a private security company that overlooks the airport and ramp at night. But if the student was given access to the plane to fly solo earlier than he would already have the keys and binder to the A/C for the remainder of the evening.
These things could happen to anyone at anytime. I had a private american student just about ready to pass her PP when she taxied to fast/close and struck a fuel truck taxing in from her last solo. She never taxied faster than a walk with me in the aircraft. You just never know.
Here are a few photos of the ramp at castle if you want to know what the scene looks like. There is tons of ramp space and the 50-60 planes are parked really far from each other. It is almost pitch black out on the ramp at night.
But this one seems to be linked to a student breaking the rules and not the instructors. R.I.P. Sierra does have a private security company that overlooks the airport and ramp at night. But if the student was given access to the plane to fly solo earlier than he would already have the keys and binder to the A/C for the remainder of the evening.
These things could happen to anyone at anytime. I had a private american student just about ready to pass her PP when she taxied to fast/close and struck a fuel truck taxing in from her last solo. She never taxied faster than a walk with me in the aircraft. You just never know.
Here are a few photos of the ramp at castle if you want to know what the scene looks like. There is tons of ramp space and the 50-60 planes are parked really far from each other. It is almost pitch black out on the ramp at night.
AngelFuree
Well-Known Member
Ouch, condolences to the family and friends. It was an extremely Darwinian thing to do, nonetheless.
jhugz
Guppy gear swinger
From my understanding they had the keys from an earlier flight that was conducted legal...but they kept the keys and then performed this flight.
AngelFuree
Well-Known Member
Wow, that's crazy. I still don't understand the order of events. If what the newspaper reports is true, that the occupant got off and walked away while the victim walked outside while leaving the engine running, I do NOT want to imagine what other trouble this guy could have gotten into. I guess we'll just have to wait for more details.
LOGS
Well-Known Member
I feel bad for the deceased but it was a stupid death. The student jumped out because:
1. It was suppose to be a solo flight but the pilot wanted to take his buddy. This has happened many times at castle, its sad but really most of the students there have no respect for the rules.
2. Apparently Gary the janitor turned fueler was out fueling planes when the students thought he wasn't going to be there
3. Gary is well known to be a huge snitch and always in everyone's business
So what the passenger did was while the airplane was still taxing, he jumped out and decided to run to the front of the airplane and ran headfirst into the prop.
Now I'm not sure if Castle has changed much in the year or so when I instructed there but the security is a joke. Many times the binders where left out for instructors because dispatch would close by 6ish. This means that anyone could and have taken any airplane they want at any time. The code for the gate to the ramp hasn't been changed in forever, and at night the ramp is very dark and with no tower anyone can really do anything, and everyone knows this.
The blame for this pointless death really falls on the disregard and plan stupidity of the solo pilot and passenger, AND to the company for the lack of any real safety program or real airport security. I for one, hope the company gets nabbed for this. A death has been long time coming with their terrible company attitude and maintenance.
=Jason-
1. It was suppose to be a solo flight but the pilot wanted to take his buddy. This has happened many times at castle, its sad but really most of the students there have no respect for the rules.
2. Apparently Gary the janitor turned fueler was out fueling planes when the students thought he wasn't going to be there
3. Gary is well known to be a huge snitch and always in everyone's business
So what the passenger did was while the airplane was still taxing, he jumped out and decided to run to the front of the airplane and ran headfirst into the prop.
Now I'm not sure if Castle has changed much in the year or so when I instructed there but the security is a joke. Many times the binders where left out for instructors because dispatch would close by 6ish. This means that anyone could and have taken any airplane they want at any time. The code for the gate to the ramp hasn't been changed in forever, and at night the ramp is very dark and with no tower anyone can really do anything, and everyone knows this.
The blame for this pointless death really falls on the disregard and plan stupidity of the solo pilot and passenger, AND to the company for the lack of any real safety program or real airport security. I for one, hope the company gets nabbed for this. A death has been long time coming with their terrible company attitude and maintenance.
=Jason-
trafficinsight
Well-Known Member
messy way to go, it sucks
off topic but there was a gear up landing at MER today also.
off topic but there was a gear up landing at MER today also.
jhugz
Guppy gear swinger
It wasn't one of Sierra's was it?
LOGS
Well-Known Member
SierraPilot123
Well-Known Member
Terrible maintenance? Are you kidding me>? After 1,500 hrs. flying their planes I never had a serious maintenance issue. Only minor minor problems. Mike, Mario, Keith and others maintenance are great and well respected around there. I think you should check your facts on that one.
Gary is only doing his job. His job is part security, part janitor, part fueler.
Binders were always left out for instructors at Oakland, Livermore and we never had a single incident or problem with students. As soon as we introduced outside instructors who never went to the school, rules started to be broken. There was always a big camaraderie for those who went through the program themselves and were selected to instruct afterwards. They always had an 8 hr entrance exam requiring a 90% pass rate to instruct until the Indian and Asian contracts began.
Apparently it was up to your standards if you stayed there for an entire year.
LOGS
Well-Known Member
I'm not here to argue but their maintence was terrible when I was there. The citabria (which I ferryed from houston) is one great example. They found the two main spars holding the talk together where saw over halfway through. Then they lied to me and said it was fixed. I put over 50 hours on the plane till i decided to look under the inspection cover myself and see that nothing was done to it. Also I've had an engine failure, and don't get me started about the Semi's. Mike's a great guy and so is Mario. The main issue was just Dan yelling at them to get the airplanes back on the ramp so things got skipped.
I stayed there for my 10 months cause I agreed to the verbal contract and that means something to me, great pay and basically did what I wanted, and really living there was a party 24/7. Great great times.
Oh and Castle was nothing like Oakdale or Livermore, and don't get me started about standards lol.
=Jason-
I stayed there for my 10 months cause I agreed to the verbal contract and that means something to me, great pay and basically did what I wanted, and really living there was a party 24/7. Great great times.
Oh and Castle was nothing like Oakdale or Livermore, and don't get me started about standards lol.
=Jason-
WestIndian425
Well-Known Member
Whoa!! I didn't realized this happened! I'm really sorry to hear the news.
I doubt this will shut down the school, but there will be a serious revamping of the business. John Yoon must be pulling out his hair in the BMW while playing the sax...
I doubt this will shut down the school, but there will be a serious revamping of the business. John Yoon must be pulling out his hair in the BMW while playing the sax...
