Sending first student for Private Pilot Checkride

FL350

FL350

Well-Known Member
I'm getting ready to send my first student for his private pilot check-ride. His training took nearly a 8 months longer than originally planned, due to some outside circumstances limiting his time to fly. Anyway I think he is close to being ready for his check-ride.

Any advice from you more experienced instructors on making sure that he is prepared and comfortable for the ride?
 
Congrats on sending your first student.

Preparation for the student is when they can consistently preform the required PTS maneuvers and have the knowledge to execute private pilot skills, decision making and weather/chart/etc. correlative processes. Know, and tell them, they are going to make a few mistakes on the checkride; and, as long as they try to recognize, verbalize and correct the action they should do just fine. Remind them that if they don't know the answer, say so. Many examiners will find a way to ask the question differently, because the applicant actually does know the answer but is not able to appropriately verbalize it.
Your experience is the guide for their recommendation. You've worked with a number of students and this is your first applicant, but you've probably seen enough to know they are ready.

Best of luck
 
Make sure he/she knows 91.213(d),
just(d), don't waste time on (a)(b)&(c).Only (d) which is like a checklist of specific procedures to determine airwothiness of us light trainers with no MEL when the DPE says something trivial is broken.
 
Thanks @nosehair ! an local FAA inspector that I know advised me on the same thing a couple years ago. I always ask my students "if such and such was broken what FAR would you reference for guidance". I think this too often forgotten, or maybe not taught.
 
FL350 said:
Thanks @nosehair ! an local FAA inspector that I know advised me on the same thing a couple years ago. I always ask my students "if such and such was broken what FAR would you reference for guidance". I think this too often forgotten, or maybe not taught.
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It's kind of sad but 91.213 was always taught as MATOF^2 or grabcard or some other such acronym, so that's how students always seemed to interpret 91.213 I tried really hard of breaking my students of that habit. It aggravated me to no end when the answer to the question of whether or not you can go fly with a busted turn coordinator is "well it's not in MATOF, so yes."
 
FL350 said:
@poser765 exactly! I run into that all the time around the flight school, and my answer used to be the same.. not now
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Oh for sure. I'm pretty sure in my baby pilot days I actually recited the acronym in answer to the question...all of it. hell, i didn't know any better, because no one ever taught me better.
 
Take them up for a mock check ride and just go item by item through the PTS. If they are consistently within limits and display confidence throughout the flight- good to go. Also, tell your students to KEEP IT SIMPLE answering questions. I remember reading this or seeing this in a video somewhere but it went something along these lines: an examiner held up a pencil and asked, "do you know what this is?" The student said "That is a pencil." The examiner says "Wrong. The correct answer is 'Yes, I know what that is.' " Give simple answers and let the examiner dig more if he or she wants.
 
There's a difference in being a lawyer-like jerk and digging yourself a hole.
You dont want your student to open up new topics and avenues of questioning by talking too much and answering more than is asked, but then again if he answers the courtroom way, the examiner may become irritated and therefore hunt for topics on which the student may not be well versed.
 
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When you go over the ground knowledge, sit there like agent smith from the matrix, ask the question, then don't say anything until the student is completely done talking. Don't nod your head to or do anything that tells him whether he is going down the right or wrong path. Accept the answer he gives you as if you were a robot. He needs to have the correct answer and be 100% confident of those answers, otherwise he does not actually know the material. I tell my guys before we start the stage check that I will be acting like a robot and staring at them blankly on purpose. It's kind of fun!

Same thing goes for the flight. You should be able to say "show me a soft field landing" and then be completely quiet, while they perform the entire maneuver, with ZERO input from you. They should not only be capable of performing the maneuver, but be confident in performing it correctly as well. Again, inform the student before hand that you absolutely can not help them, only evaluate, and that you will be very quiet in the cockpit so they know you aren't picking on them. It's a very unique testing environment that most people have never experienced before.

Then, when they go to the check ride, the examiner will be easier than you were, because most examiners are super friendly, want the student to pass, and miiiiiight even do a little chit chatting during the test. I do 90% of the final stage checks at my school and we are well above an 80% pass rate for all of the certs and ratings, some of them are even above a 90% pass rate.
 
Double check (or have another instructor look over) his/her IACRA, endorsements, documents, etc. to make sure you didn't miss anything! It's a real bummer to have the ride start out with a paperwork issue.
 
As others have said, a mock check-ride, oral and flight is a good idea. If it's your first sign-off for the PPL, you could have him do it with someone else. Go through everything in the PTS, making sure to cover the special emphasis items in the front. If they can't consistently do a descent job of everything, spend some time reviewing the weak areas. I've done a number of PPL and other check rides for a 141 school with examining authority, and probably the weakest area I see is on the flights. Usually stems from bad decision making, possibly from their instructor not letting them figure things out for themselves. (Like how to enter a non-towered traffic pattern from the opposite side, or when ATC instructs them to do a base entry or something other than downwind.) The other thing I see often is bad landings, getting waay too slow on final or attempting a carrier landing with absolutely no flare. Make sure they know that if the examiner has kept their mouth shut, no matter what bone-headed mistake they have made, it's in the past and they still have a shot to pass. They will make it very clear if the student has failed!

It doesn't have to be pretty, it just has to meet the standards. You can do a pretty ugly set of maneuvers and still meet the PTS requirements.

Also as bb10pilot said, have their documents in order. I like to have them put all the documents listed in the front of the PTS in a folder, ID & everything else. I also put those little colored tape tabs in their logbook so the examiner can find all the endorsements. Make sure they use that checklist in the front of the PTS.

Lastly, in my experience most examiners aren't trying to fail your student. If a student is struggling on an oral in a particular area, they will usually ask different questions in that subject area in an attempt to find the student has overall adequate knowledge. I want to pass everyone when I give a check-ride, but some students just don't have the knowledge or can't meet the standards.
 
Id have have fly with another instructor for a mock checkride. Also have him fill out a paper 8710 form in addition to iacra just in case the computer or site goes down. I will never show up to another check ride with out a paper 8710 form .. Ask me why ...
 
Terry said:
Id have have fly with another instructor for a mock checkride. Also have him fill out a paper 8710 form in addition to iacra just in case the computer or site goes down. I will never show up to another check ride with out a paper 8710 form .. Ask me why ...
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How so mr T?
 
Well I had to drive an hour to get to my plane then fly an hour to meet with an inspector for my initial instructor ride just for the computers at the fbo crash . So I could not access iacra. So we could not start my check ride . This in when the inspector told me I should have brought a paper copy..My students an I will never show up to a check rider ever with out a paper 8710.
 
nosehair said:
Make sure he/she knows 91.213(d),
just(d), don't waste time on (a)(b)&(c).Only (d) which is like a checklist of specific procedures to determine airwothiness of us light trainers with no MEL when the DPE says something trivial is broken.
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Examiner "If the stall warning horn is inop on a Piper PA28, can you fly it?"
Applicant "I am using a Cessna 172"
Examiner "The certificate for which you are applying permits you to fly a Piper PA28 so I expect you to know this too"
Applicant "No"
Examiner "Why not?"
Applicant "Cause if I say yes, you will bust me"
Examiner "lol good answer, after we are done read 91.213 and the Cert. Data Sheet with all revisions and email me the real reason"
Applicant "yes sir"

I will never forget this exchange because you just can't make stuff this good, up.

My student indeed passed. lol
 
moxiepilot said:
Good on the examiner too for playing the educational card.
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Thats one of the reasons I love this examiner. He doesn't bust applicants for dumb reasons. He busts them for legitimate, "You put the plane into a spin" reasons,

I had a applicant do a checkride that was probably one of the most awesome checkrides in history for a PPL.
We show up at the examiner's airport at 7:30am with the airplane at the FBO.
The examiner (a friend of mine btw) pulls me aside and says "I have a problem...I have to go pick up the King Air. But here's the deal, the guys over at _____ have to empty leg that Lear 55 outside to the same place, so if your guy isn't the sort of schmuck who, if he fails his exam, would go cry to the FAA that I took him with us, I will just do his oral in the back of the Lear and finish the flight portion once we get back in the King Air"

At this point my jaw was hanging loosely and I was grinning like a fool. "If he fails and cries to the FAA, I'll bust his kneecaps for you" is my quite sincere reply.

Fast forward 20 minutes:
We are all piled into the back of the Lear 55 as it makes the standard "Everyone onboard is a pilot" takeoff and climb...straight the F up.

35 minutes later we land, Oral exam over....mostly.

10 minutes later I am running the Pro Collins 21 Checklists and preparing to taxi for takeoff as Right seat for the examiner.
25 minutes later at FL 210 we encounter icing so I yank the applicant currently sitting in the back, drooling and whimpering about wanting his mommy, up front to see what icing actually looks like.
I decided this is a perfect opportunity for him to have a great learning lesson so I give up my seat and let him right seat the remainder of the flight back.
The DPE then puts him to work hand flying the 200 using the FD as a guide. He did extremely well.
As we start to approach our destination, the examiner brings up the ILS approach and has the applicant fly it (as best he can)
Applicant (with Examiner close supervision) then commences to hand fly this King Air 200 nicely down the localizer and intercepts the glideslope before they bring it in for a great landing together.

Applicant finishes flight test and passes checkride.

On the flight back to our home airport, applicant asks "What the F was that?"
I say "That was a Private Pilot Checkride. Didn't you know they are all like that?"

I won't ever beat this one. I doubt many will.
For those wondering, yes the Examiner is also an MEI and the King Air is approved for Single pilot ops. It was a totally legal flight back. :) hehe
 
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