Screw Up and Go To Jail

B767Driver

B767Driver

New Member
I don't know if everyone's been following what's happened to the Legacy crew that ran into the 737 in Brazil....but the flight crew is still imprisoned and likely to be criminally charged. This doesn't happen in the U.S. but has precedent in foreign countries...and should be something to be concerned about. I believe even the Air Traffic Controllers in the DHL/Aeroflot mid-air were criminally charged and doing prison terms.

Typically, a violation of an FAR in the U.S. brings certificate action only....rarely penal action including fines and prison time.

But be careful out there. If you bust an altitude in Sao Paulo...you might not come home for awhile.
 
So pretty much they just sit then? Are there not certain laws out there to help them? That is scary to think it really could happen to anyone at ANY time. :(
 
Emergency said:
wait? What happend? They were taxi'ing and ran into a 737? that's not too good, nor is it too smart!
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Can't find any links but the Legacy plane supposedly had a mid-air with the 737 casuing it to crash. Everyone on board died and the Legacy plane landed safely. There is controversy as to whether the Legacy plane did in fact come in contact with the 737.
 
Not sure what the verdict will be here, but I imagine that even in the U.S., if you could show "gross negligence" the person could face prison time. Most of the pilots who commit such acts end up being buried with their mistakes, it's pretty rare for them to survive such as in this case - so not sure what would happen in the U.S. I think there was a pretty good case against the Zurich controllers, though.
 
From what I know the legacy crew turned off the transponder to get to a more favorable altitude and ended up colliding with the 737 killing 137 poeple...so that would be extreme negligence.
 
Texasspilot said:
From what I know the legacy crew turned off the transponder to get to a more favorable altitude and ended up colliding with the 737 killing 137 poeple...so that would be extreme negligence.
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I think that's been disproved.... but I'm not sure.

It's really screaming "coverup"
 
Texasspilot said:
From what I know the legacy crew turned off the transponder to get to a more favorable altitude and ended up colliding with the 737 killing 137 poeple...so that would be extreme negligence.
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This is what the Brazilian authorities have been saying. But, supposedly those who have heard the ATC tapes are saying the Legacy was cleared to the altitude they were at. There was also supposedly a 'radar gap' with no coverage in the area where the collision occurred.

I think that when this is all over, Brazil is going to look pretty stupid. It was almost like "One of our planes crashed, and it can't be our fault, let's blame the Americans." So far, there has been no hard evidence presented that the crew of the Legacy did anything wrong. And I don't know about you, but if someone took my passport and then expected me to answer questions or help them in any way, I would tell them where they could shove it. That is the big danger here. When you start to use the criminal justice system to investigate things like this, it takes forever because no one will willingly cooperate.
 
B767Driver said:
But be careful out there. If you bust an altitude in Sao Paulo...you might not come home for awhile.
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I agree there have been interesting precedents set, but busting an altitude hasn't landed them in jail. Mind you their authorities are still investigating but they're being held for possibly busting and having a mid-air resulting in 154 deaths.

I think there are some nationalistic attitudes on both sides. Let's say though that a Mexican corporate jet collided with a Delta MD-80 somewhere over Texas possibly due to an altitude bust. I could see public outcry to hold the possible culpable pilots in the 'ol US of A until we figured out what happened. Just my $.02
 
Texasspilot said:
From what I know the legacy crew turned off the transponder to get to a more favorable altitude and ended up colliding with the 737 killing 137 poeple...so that would be extreme negligence.
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That's an irresponsible accusation, and a reprehensible way to treat fellow aviators.




We've been following this issue carefully at ProPilotWorld.com, and have been engaged is sending letters to the Brazilian government, as well as our own Representatives and Senators. The two pilots of the Legacy are being confined in "house arrest", their Passports confiscated.


One of our members has translated the Brazilian press for us. Here's a quick blurb from yesterday:

Yesterday's O Globo says the preliminary accident investigation report is out, and it does not assign blame to any individuals, instead listing contributing factors. The final report is not expected until the first third of next year.

The report verifies that the Legacy was level at FL370, and flying continuously in a linear fashion (definitely not maneuvering, or "goofing off," as has been alleged). The report also confirms that controllers attempted seven times to contact the Legacy, during a 30-minute period of lost comm; further, it says a test flight (by a Brazilian AF plane) failed to detect communications gaps along the route.

Not addressed yet: human factors and possible errors by controllers or pilots.
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I also take umbrage with the title of the thread, B767Driver, as it has not been established tht the Legacy crew did ANYTHING wrong. You've just convicted them based on sketchy media reports, rumors, and innuendo. I hope your jury is more impartial and fairminded.



Both airplanes, the Legacy and the 737, were assigned the same altitude. Air Traffic controllers have refused to comment, being as they are under psychiatric care. The same government agency that is responsible for ATC is also responsible for investigating the accident. How easy do you think it will be for them to blame themselves, when they have two American pilots to pin the blame on?





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ananoman said:
And I don't know about you, but if someone took my passport and then expected me to answer questions or help them in any way, I would tell them where they could shove it.
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It's easy to talk big behind the keyboard and a pretty screen, but when you find yourself in the middle of the Amazon, your tune might change.


It's a jungle out there.






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There was a good couple of articles in this months AIN. One of the possible causes that was mentioned was that ATC told the Lecacy "to maintain", the pilots thought they ment maintain current altitude, but that ATC ment maintain the flight plan that had them climbing to FL380.
 
B767Driver said:
I believe even the Air Traffic Controllers in the DHL/Aeroflot mid-air were criminally charged and doing prison terms.
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I'm not sure if the controller was ever criminally charged, but he was murdered by a guy who lost his family on the Russian plane about two years after the accident.
 
TonyC said:
I also take umbrage with the title of the thread, B767Driver, as it has not been established tht the Legacy crew did ANYTHING wrong. You've just convicted them based on sketchy media reports, rumors, and innuendo. I hope your jury is more impartial and fairminded.


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The point to be made is that foreign nations tend to be more penal on aviation mishaps than what you find in the good 'ole USA.

How many pilots do you find in the Federal Pen after running off the end of a runway and doing damage? I'm not familiar with any. The track record abroad is not similar.

I'm not here to be judge and jury...but the mainstream industry press reports they were at the wrong altitude among other factors. That's good enough for me to make the point I intended.
 
zmiller4 said:
I'm not sure if the controller was ever criminally charged, but he was murdered by a guy who lost his family on the Russian plane about two years after the accident.
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The controller was not charged (he was murdered). Very recently, about a half-dozen supervisors and managers in the ATC system were charged with, basically, organizational negligence, or something like that.
 
you guys have to remember that a lot of people died and the corporate jet landed safely. Although I sympethize with them as a pilot but that is an awfull amount of dead people for one man's mistake.
 
B767Driver said:
I'm not here to be judge and jury...but the mainstream industry press reports they were at the wrong altitude among other factors. That's good enough for me to make the point I intended.
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Would you be so kind as to supply a hyperlink to such a story from the "mainstream industry"?






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