Saw what happens when tow limits are exceeded...

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Roger, Roger

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...on a Cherokee 140. Ugly. I just hope it wasn't one of OUR line guys that did it.
 
You talking about nosewheel limits? Saw a guy try to turn a cessna 90 degrees with a tug, twisted the towbar bolts off then tried to deny it...
 
Thats a sad thing to see. I sow someone blow the strut on a 172 not too long a go with a little aggressive golf cart turn. It really made a mess. I don't think it was actually too hard to fix though.
 
Somebody must not have been paying any attention to what was going on behind the tug. I don't recall the tow limits being that tight on a PA28. Or any Cessna/Piper for that matter. Bonanza or Mooney was a lot tighter on the limits.
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
Somebody must not have been paying any attention to what was going on behind the tug. I don't recall the tow limits being that tight on a PA28. Or any Cessna/Piper for that matter. Bonanza or Mooney was a lot tighter on the limits.
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The only bad thing about the PA28 is a lot of the ones I towed didn't have the limits marked, sort of like the Mooneys. I hated towing those things around. Cirruses were my friend.
 
JordanD said:
The only bad thing about the PA28 is a lot of the ones I towed didn't have the limits marked, sort of like the Mooneys. I hated towing those things around. Cirruses were my friend.
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All of the castering wheel planes are (Diamond, Cirrus, AA-1/5, Lancair's, etc) really easy to tow, once you figure it out. I hated towing Bonanza's. More often that not, the market limits weren't the limits, and you'd break the little pin before you hit the limit.
 
Yeah, PA28s can be a pain because the limits aren't marked and compared to some of the stuff we're used to towing (PC12, KA350, Citations) it's got really shallow limits.

Pics?
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
I hated towing Bonanza's. More often that not, the market limits weren't the limits, and you'd break the little pin before you hit the limit.
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The worst thing about those pins is that the pins themselves were really cheap, but the price of labor made breaking them a big deal.
 
Back in the line guy day I had to tow a Citation (I believe Encore or comparable model) out of the storage hanger and tow it quite a ways around the airport to the main FBO building. The pilots started up and taxied straight ahead unable to turn. They shut down right there and yelled at me having towed it last. Now I can you that I never got past 45 degree past center point while towing the aircraft so in no way could I have exceeded the tow limits.
Well the aircraft was fixed and they went on their merry way. After many so called "interrogations," I was in the clear as well as my spotter. About a week later our newest hire ramp rat came clean that the supervisor at the time was the one towing the bird into the hanger and well exceeded the limits on the nose gear and decided to brush it under the rug. Ultimately that supervisor was fired (and that new guy got a few free beers for coming clean cause no one cared for that guy).
 
BCTAv8r said:
The worst thing about those pins is that the pins themselves were really cheap, but the price of labor made breaking them a big deal.
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First thing I was taught, after being taught how to tow a Bonanza, was how to assist in changing said pin. It was funny that I was pushing it around find, and then one of the more experienced guys wanted to move a different Bonanza, and broke one of those pins right then.
 
I think it is a matter of the kind of method one is using. The safest way of course is hand towing. Now of course this is not practical with a large aircraft or for going long distances.

The next best option would be the power tug that lifts the nose wheel onto a free-turning plate, allowing the tug to turn without turning the nose wheel.

Even still the tug may side-load the mains on extreme turns (on main rolling forward, on main rolling back).

Are these types of tugs used on biz. jets?
 
jonnydwolf said:
I think it is a matter of the kind of method one is using. The safest way of course is hand towing. Now of course this is not practical with a large aircraft or for going long distances.

The next best option would be the power tug that lifts the nose wheel onto a free-turning plate, allowing the tug to turn without turning the nose wheel.

Even still the tug may side-load the mains on extreme turns (on main rolling forward, on main rolling back).

Are these types of tugs used on biz. jets?
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Your kidding right? As a former line guy, we don't have time to hand tow airplanes all around our ramp. We had tugs and towbars, and we pushed/pulled everything. Only plane I would ever push by hand was a Lancair 2000, which was more trouble than it was worth on the tug.

I know those tugs that pick up the nose wheel are popular, but I'm not to sure about them. Seems like it would be real easy to drop the nose wheel off of the plate, if you aren't paying attention. No way you can use one of those tugs on a jet. They are just to big, its easier to put the towbar on the jet, and do it that way. I even had a Westwind pilot explicitly tell us not to use one of those lift tugs on his plane, because he had in the last 12 months had 3 incidents with his nose gear and those tugs causing damage.
 
I hated towing the diamond around on the tug that raised the nosewheel...

Pulling wasn't bad, but pushing....forget it.

-mini
 
jonnydwolf said:
I think it is a matter of the kind of method one is using. The safest way of course is hand towing. Now of course this is not practical with a large aircraft or for going long distances.

The next best option would be the power tug that lifts the nose wheel onto a free-turning plate, allowing the tug to turn without turning the nose wheel.

Even still the tug may side-load the mains on extreme turns (on main rolling forward, on main rolling back).

Are these types of tugs used on biz. jets?
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KSCessnaDriver said:
I know those tugs that pick up the nose wheel are popular, but I'm not to sure about them. Seems like it would be real easy to drop the nose wheel off of the plate, if you aren't paying attention. No way you can use one of those tugs on a jet. They are just to big, its easier to put the towbar on the jet, and do it that way. I even had a Westwind pilot explicitly tell us not to use one of those lift tugs on his plane, because he had in the last 12 months had 3 incidents with his nose gear and those tugs causing damage.
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I've never seen one that allows the nose wheel to free-caster while the tug spins around it, but I have a hard time imagining one built that way. Those type of tugs have to secure the aircraft to it somehow to prevent it from rolling away and I can't even imagine a good way to do that without capturing the nose wheel.

However, those tugs definitely can move biz jets, I worked for an FBO with a medium sized Lektro that was capable of moving a GIV just fine. They may not look like much, but they've got some torque.

I do still prefer a tug and bar method because it's still relatively easy to get out of tow limits quickly due to the steering arrangement while a standard bar and tug arrangement tends to give you a bit more reaction time. Really, I've never had a problem with either arrangement, and they both beat the hell out of hand towing any day. A busy FBO just doesn't have the time or resources to play with pushing aircraft by hand. The only things that have ever taken away my confidence are bad brakes, loose steering, and transmissions that can't be locked into one gear.
 
OhioStatePilot said:
I've never seen one that allows the nose wheel to free-caster while the tug spins around it, but I have a hard time imagining one built that way. Those type of tugs have to secure the aircraft to it somehow to prevent it from rolling away and I can't even imagine a good way to do that without capturing the nose wheel.

However, those tugs definitely can move biz jets, I worked for an FBO with a medium sized Lektro that was capable of moving a GIV just fine. They may not look like much, but they've got some torque.

I do still prefer a tug and bar method because it's still relatively easy to get out of tow limits quickly due to the steering arrangement while a standard bar and tug arrangement tends to give you a bit more reaction time. Really, I've never had a problem with either arrangement, and they both beat the hell out of hand towing any day. A busy FBO just doesn't have the time or resources to play with pushing aircraft by hand. The only things that have ever taken away my confidence are bad brakes, loose steering, and transmissions that can't be locked into one gear.
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Oh, cool. I didn't know they had tugs big enough to pick up the nose of something like a G-IV. The only time I ever saw an FBO towing with one, they just picked up the front of the 172 I was in, and took off.
 
Please don't use the lift plate tugs on Learjets. It doesn't take kindly to the straps around the strut. It has quite a puny ass nose gear assembly. Thanks
 
Lektros were great for efficiently putting aircraft in the hangars. We'd get much less in with a regular tug.
 
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