Ryanair was too low during approach in 2015

[Beefy McGee]

French BEA Release Report On Ryanair 737 That Dipped To 800 Feet 8nm From The Runway

simpleflying.com

Consider the source first. But...

"The 27-year-old First Officer had just 400 hours flying experience and had never flown a non-precision approach, an automated system that regulates the aircraft’s descent."

(Huh? on that automated system that regulates the descent part)

But 400 hours, and never did a non-precision approach, ever? I kind of doubt that. But does Ryanair not train non-precision approaches? I doubt that too though the article later says Ryanair changed policy to only allow precision approaches.

In any case I can totally believe a 400 hour FO in weather blowing a GPS or LOC altitude restriction. Think it said he was turning too. Hand flying? Also a bad instrument scan technique? CA not monitoring well?

Yikes.

 

[CaptainYoda]

and we hear about it 5 years later.

I know the gears of bureaucracy turn slowly but wow!

 

[Richman]

French BEA Release Report On Ryanair 737 That Dipped To 800 Feet 8nm From The Runway

simpleflying.com

Consider the source first. But...

"The 27-year-old First Officer had just 400 hours flying experience and had never flown a non-precision approach, an automated system that regulates the aircraft’s descent."

(Huh? on that automated system that regulartes the descent part)

But 400 hours, and never did a non-precision approach, ever? I kind of doubt that. But does Ryanair not train non-precision approaches? I doubt that too though the article later says Ryanair changed policy to only allow precision approaches.

In any case I can totally believe a 400 hour FO in weather blowing a GPS or LOC altitude restriction. Think it said he was turning too. Hand flying? Also a bad instrument scan technique? CA not monitoring well?

Yikes.

Ab initio, yo. Jump the hoops, check the boxes, perform the wholly scripted events in sequence when the you know the answers ahead of time with zero skin in the game. Then go fly people and post selfies.

And that's what some want here.

ATP rule was the best thing ever.

 

[Maximilian_Jenius]

French BEA Release Report On Ryanair 737 That Dipped To 800 Feet 8nm From The Runway

simpleflying.com

Consider the source first. But...

"The 27-year-old First Officer had just 400 hours flying experience and had never flown a non-precision approach, an automated system that regulates the aircraft’s descent."

(Huh? on that automated system that regulates the descent part)

But 400 hours, and never did a non-precision approach, ever? I kind of doubt that. But does Ryanair not train non-precision approaches? I doubt that too though the article later says Ryanair changed policy to only allow precision approaches.

In any case I can totally believe a 400 hour FO in weather blowing a GPS or LOC altitude restriction. Think it said he was turning too. Hand flying? Also a bad instrument scan technique? CA not monitoring well?

Yikes.

Ab initio, yo. Jump the hoops, check the boxes, perform the wholly scripted events in sequence when the you know the answers ahead of time with zero skin in the game. Then go fly people and post selfies.

And that's what some want here.

ATP rule was the best thing ever.

I remember non-precision approaches from my training. ILS appchs were my favorite as they involved more skill. But I also loved my RNAV approaches too. We didn't have WAAS so we couldn't do LPV approaches. I was told that LPV is a precision GPS approach.

 

[z987k]

I remember non-precision approaches from my training. ILS appchs were my favorite as they involved more skill. But I also loved my RNAV approaches too. We didn't have WAAS so we couldn't do LPV approaches. I was told that LPV is a precision GPS approach.

For the purposes of the term "precision approach" in regards to regs that require them, LPV is not. But I mean, 200-1/2 is as good as a lot of ILS'.

 

[jweldon]

LPV is an APV, approach with vertical guidance. ICAO requires a ground based nav aid to be considered precision, so the new LAAS (now GBAS) approaches will be considered precision and eligible for cat 3

 

[Pilot Fighter]

ATP rule was the best thing ever.

It could certainly be improved by adding some hour multipliers for higher quality tine.

 

[ppragman]

For the purposes of the term "precision approach" in regards to regs that require them, LPV is not. But I mean, 200-1/2 is as good as a lot of ILS'.

Though you can use them for demonstrating precision approaches on a practical test, which is weird. It is like the feds are aware of how stupid the distinction is.

 

[Skåning]

A head scratcher in 2017, Emirates almost crashed an A380 in Moscow - flying at 400 ft., 8 mi from the runway

The Aviation Herald

Aviation Herald - News, Incidents and Accidents in Aviation

avherald.com

 

[KVNC]

400 TT in a 73. Sweet. Do the CA’s get a babysitter multiplier?

 

[Richman]

It could certainly be improved by adding some hour multipliers for higher quality tine.

I think not. 500 hours watching the autopilot flight the magenta line isn't exactly the same as teaching primary students, where it's totally interactive and your ticket (and life) are on the line. That first 1300 hours is all about stick and rudder, and consolidating what you learned in the first 200 and making good PIC calls, not picking up the catering from the FBO or collecting trash in the cabin.

 

[Pilot Fighter]

I think not. 500 hours watching the autopilot flight the magenta line isn't exactly the same as teaching primary students, where it's totally interactive and your ticket (and life) are on the line. That first 1300 hours is all about stick and rudder, and consolidating what you learned in the first 200 and making good PIC calls, not picking up the catering from the FBO or collecting trash in the cabin.

I think we might be agreeing. I'm being critical of some weak SIC time.

I certainly wasn't criticizing the CFI route to ATP. I was thinking of something like valuing MEL or turbine PIC time more than some weak SIC time. CFI's could benefit as well.

I wouldn't mind something like 1.5x for MEL or turbine PIC hours.

Think about the "Teterboro SIC-0" racking up SIC time while his company prohibited him from flying the aircraft.