Runway separation?

adreamer

adreamer

Well-Known Member
Here is the situation:

Cleared for visual approach, behind and follow traffic at your 11 o'clock to different runways. we landed without any problem. While we were slowing down, tower asked us to go out at the end. All of sudden, tower asked us to "cleared off runway ASAP".

When we turned off the runway and saw another plane already landed. Is this legal? Should I filed ASAP? runway length is 5000' and width is 150'.


thanks in advance
 
Re: Runway seperation?

Need to know your type aircraft and the type that landed behind you, then I'll see what I can find in the book.

Also I'm not too clear on the "visual approach, behind and follow traffic at your 11 o'clock to different runways" part... were you #1 to land on your runway or did someone land ahead of you?
 
Re: Runway seperation?

ATC RET 2003 said:
Need to know your type aircraft and the type that landed behind you, then I'll see what I can find in the book.

Also I'm not too clear on the "visual approach, behind and follow traffic at your 11 o'clock to different runways" part... were you #1 to land on your runway or did someone land ahead of you?
Click to expand...

In the AF, depending on the MAJCOM and base, we can have multiple fighter-type aircraft on the runway at the same time, with 6k separation between dissimilar and 3k separation similar, under RRS..or Reduced Runway Separation, using the "hot. So it wasn't uncommon to see one jet landing, and 2 rolling-out downfield on a 12,000 foot runway.

Problem is one gets too used to this, and gets surprised when they fly civilian..."my spacing looks fine with the guy ahead of me..". Tower: Cessna XX, prepare for go around. Me: "awww.....crap!". :D
 
Re: Runway seperation?

Assuming you were in the dash 8 in your avatar picture....

You're in a class III aircraft, and therefore you have to be clear of the runway before the next arriving aircraft crosses the threshold.

More than likely, the tower should have instructed the traffic following you to go around. But it's impossible to say, without knowing the entire situation. There's always the chance of an emergency, pilot deviation, lost coms, etc.....
 
Re: Runway seperation?

Need to know your type aircraft and the type that landed behind you, then I'll see what I can find in the book
Click to expand...

Me - Dash8-100, traffic behind is CRJ2. We were not officially cleared off runway yet(cross runway boundary line) when I saw the plane landed. :rolleyes:

Also I'm not too clear on the "visual approach, behind and follow traffic at your 11 o'clock to different runways" part... were you #1 to land on your runway or did someone land ahead of you?
Click to expand...

We were landing 26, E170/190 is landing 27R, PHL is the airport. ATC clearance for us - "Cleared for visual approach 26, following and stay behind traffic which at your 12 o'clock, left based, 4000' for 3000', 5 miles for 27." Typical PHL west Ops from my little experience.

Hope this help
 
borommakot called it... you would have needed to be clear of the runway for it to be legal.

I got the flick on the clearance now. Thanks for the explanation.

As for the ASAP (or ASRS or whatever)... I have filed a bunch of them in the past and never had any harm done to me for it. If I ever had any doubt about a situation, I filed one.

Another thing you could do is call the facility and talk to a supe about it.
 
Re: Runway seperation?

adreamer said:
Me - Dash8-100, traffic behind is CRJ2. We were not officially cleared off runway yet(cross runway boundary line) when I saw the plane landed. :rolleyes:



We were landing 26, E170/190 is landing 27R, PHL is the airport. ATC clearance for us - "Cleared for visual approach 26, following and stay behind traffic which at your 12 o'clock, left based, 4000' for 3000', 5 miles for 27." Typical PHL west Ops from my little experience.

Hope this help
Click to expand...

I'm not sure when you say runway boundary line if you mean the edge of the runway or the hold short line but here is another possible scenario: Clear of the runway for atc means all parts of the preceding aircraft are past the runway edge with nothing preventing the continued movement of the aircraft past the hold short line. Technically you may still be on the runway side of the hold short line but if all parts of your aircraft are past the edge of the runway, the controller was still legal. I doubt this was the case but it's a possibility.

Here is the 7110.65 def.:
b. A pilot or controller may consider an aircraft, which is exiting or crossing a runway, to be clear of the runway when all parts of the aircraft are beyond the runway edge and there are no restrictions to its continued movement beyond the applicable runway holding position marking.

HD
 
Re: Runway seperation?

HiDef said:
I'm not sure when you say runway boundary line if you mean the edge of the runway or the hold short line but here is another possible scenario: Clear of the runway for atc means all parts of the preceding aircraft are past the runway edge with nothing preventing the continued movement of the aircraft past the hold short line. Technically you may still be on the runway side of the hold short line but if all parts of your aircraft are past the edge of the runway, the controller was still legal. I doubt this was the case but it's a possibility.

Here is the 7110.65 def.:
b. A pilot or controller may consider an aircraft, which is exiting or crossing a runway, to be clear of the runway when all parts of the aircraft are beyond the runway edge and there are no restrictions to its continued movement beyond the applicable runway holding position marking.

HD
Click to expand...

Interesting. I learned something new today.
 
Re: Runway seperation?

Just so we're clear, so yoiu had already landed and were turning off the runway when ou noticed another plane had just touched down on the same runway you were turning off of? If that's the case there's is nothing remotely wrong with what you did and I wouldn't even consider an ASAP. The guy that landed while you guys were still on the runway really needs to though...but I don't know if that would help him.
 
you were landing on runway 26 and the aircraft in question was landing runway 27?? is it intersecting runways and that's what your concerned about?

or are you talking about the other aircraft landing right behind you on the SAME runway? if you were a DH8x and the aircraft behind you was a CRJx then the SAME runway separation is "clear of the runway".

as noted above..."clear of the runway" means off the runway edge and nothing preventing you from continuing past the runway hold short lines.

if u feel you don't meet the above stated "clear of runway" with you in front of the CRJ...then you have a legitimate beef.
 
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