minds_warped
New Member
Does Vr change with weight? I say no it does not. Vr is always 55 knots, for example in the C172S. I have a Starbucks Venti Latte riding on this bet. Out?
Rotation Speed
- Thread starter minds_warped
- Start date
mtsu_av8er
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
There is no Vr in a light airplane.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, there technically is - it's just not published.
If you rotate at a speed, then that speed becomes Vr....
I'm a smart ass, I know....
There is no Vr in a light airplane.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, there technically is - it's just not published.
If you rotate at a speed, then that speed becomes Vr....
I'm a smart ass, I know....
ananoman
New Member
It is published for some light aircraft. In the PA-28 for a flaps 0 or 25 takeoff Vr varies from 40 kts @ 1600 lbs to 50 kts @ 2325 lbs. In the Seminole, for a flaps 0 takeoff Vr varies between 62 @ 2600 lbs to 75 @ 3800 lbs. If flaps 25 are used, then the speeds are all a few knots lower.
In larger aircraft Vr will vary even more, due to the wide range of takeoff weights possible.
For light aircraft, some have a better POH than others, so some will not list information like this. From a practical standpoint it is usually better to just use the highest Vr listed for max weight. In the PA-28 I usually used 50 kts for Vr and in the Seminole we always took off at flaps 0 with rotation at 75 kts for a normal takeoff or 70 for a short field.
In any airplane, Vr will have some correlation with weight. You want to be fast enough so that you are comfortably above stall. You also want to have enough airspeed so that the airplane has good handling chacteristics.
In larger aircraft Vr will vary even more, due to the wide range of takeoff weights possible.
For light aircraft, some have a better POH than others, so some will not list information like this. From a practical standpoint it is usually better to just use the highest Vr listed for max weight. In the PA-28 I usually used 50 kts for Vr and in the Seminole we always took off at flaps 0 with rotation at 75 kts for a normal takeoff or 70 for a short field.
In any airplane, Vr will have some correlation with weight. You want to be fast enough so that you are comfortably above stall. You also want to have enough airspeed so that the airplane has good handling chacteristics.
USMCmech
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Out of curiosity I just checked the POH for a 1979 C172N & a 1977 C150. For the C172 it list a Vr of 47 @ 1900 lbs and a Vr of 52 @ 2300 lbs. The C150 only list a Vr of 53. In both aircraft the speed is actually listed as 'lift off' speed, which is really Vr.
[/ QUOTE ]
There's the magic words "lift off speed"
This is the speed that the wheels should "lift off" the ground, you should have "rotated" sometime earlier.
"Lift Off speed" is not Vr.
Common misconception.
Out of curiosity I just checked the POH for a 1979 C172N & a 1977 C150. For the C172 it list a Vr of 47 @ 1900 lbs and a Vr of 52 @ 2300 lbs. The C150 only list a Vr of 53. In both aircraft the speed is actually listed as 'lift off' speed, which is really Vr.
[/ QUOTE ]
There's the magic words "lift off speed"
This is the speed that the wheels should "lift off" the ground, you should have "rotated" sometime earlier.
"Lift Off speed" is not Vr.
Common misconception.
mtsu_av8er
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Sheesh, I'm happy if I can get a student to rotate at ANY speed below Vbouncing-all-over-the-runway.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's a scary thing, to pull that yoke back....
Sheesh, I'm happy if I can get a student to rotate at ANY speed below Vbouncing-all-over-the-runway.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's a scary thing, to pull that yoke back....
CapnJim
Well-Known Member
Yeah, apparently
Me: "OK, there's 55. Rotate."
Student: <frozen>
(airspeed rising rapidly now, tires getting skittish)
Me: "No really, you need to rotate"
Student: <mouth agape, pulls yoke about 2 inches>
(aircraft now bouncing lightly, 70 kias, skitting towards runway edge)
Me: "PULL, PULL, PULL!!!"
Student: (plants yoke in lap, zooms to 300 AGL, drifts helplesly off centerline, banking wildly left and right) "Uhh, was that OK?"
Me: <pinching brow, mentally fanning the last embers of burnout for one more lesson> "Yeah, we'll work on it. OK, announce left downwind for a south departure. No, left, LEFT, LEEEFFFFTT!! AHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
Me: "OK, there's 55. Rotate."
Student: <frozen>
(airspeed rising rapidly now, tires getting skittish)
Me: "No really, you need to rotate"
Student: <mouth agape, pulls yoke about 2 inches>
(aircraft now bouncing lightly, 70 kias, skitting towards runway edge)
Me: "PULL, PULL, PULL!!!"
Student: (plants yoke in lap, zooms to 300 AGL, drifts helplesly off centerline, banking wildly left and right) "Uhh, was that OK?"
Me: <pinching brow, mentally fanning the last embers of burnout for one more lesson> "Yeah, we'll work on it. OK, announce left downwind for a south departure. No, left, LEFT, LEEEFFFFTT!! AHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
mtsu_av8er
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, apparently
Me: "OK, there's 55. Rotate."
Student: <frozen>
(airspeed rising rapidly now, tires getting skittish)
Me: "No really, you need to rotate"
Student: <mouth agape, pulls yoke about 2 inches>
(aircraft now bouncing lightly, 70 kias, skitting towards runway edge)
Me: "PULL, PULL, PULL!!!"
Student: (plants yoke in lap, zooms to 300 AGL, drifts helplesly off centerline, banking wildly left and right) "Uhh, was that OK?"
Me: <pinching brow, mentally fanning the last embers of burnout for one more lesson> "Yeah, we'll work on it. OK, announce left downwind for a south departure. No, left, LEFT, LEEEFFFFTT!! AHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
LOL....Isn't it awesome??
My favorite is "OK, add some more power. OK, add some power Timmy.....we're getting a bit low here, we really need to add some power....POWER"
Student:Full throttle and there goes the runway behind us.....
Yeah, apparently
Me: "OK, there's 55. Rotate."
Student: <frozen>
(airspeed rising rapidly now, tires getting skittish)
Me: "No really, you need to rotate"
Student: <mouth agape, pulls yoke about 2 inches>
(aircraft now bouncing lightly, 70 kias, skitting towards runway edge)
Me: "PULL, PULL, PULL!!!"
Student: (plants yoke in lap, zooms to 300 AGL, drifts helplesly off centerline, banking wildly left and right) "Uhh, was that OK?"
Me: <pinching brow, mentally fanning the last embers of burnout for one more lesson> "Yeah, we'll work on it. OK, announce left downwind for a south departure. No, left, LEFT, LEEEFFFFTT!! AHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
LOL....Isn't it awesome??
My favorite is "OK, add some more power. OK, add some power Timmy.....we're getting a bit low here, we really need to add some power....POWER"
Student:Full throttle and there goes the runway behind us.....
mtsu_av8er
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Um, you guys are not making me feel better about the decision to dump MAPD and go the CFI route....
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh, Kell......the fun really starts with stalls....
Um, you guys are not making me feel better about the decision to dump MAPD and go the CFI route....
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh, Kell......the fun really starts with stalls....
Stone Cold
Well-Known Member
And you can never say "more right rudder" enough. Ahhh, the joys of students trying to kill you all day long!!!
E_Dawg
Moderator
My favorite are the excuses some of them will come up with! Like 'WOW this tailwind is really screwing up my slow flight'.
Doh! Argh... more ground...
In the practice area I pretty much give them free reign to screw up and recover on their own, so long as I can still see sky when I look up.
However the all time worst is when a student does something totally off the wall (and unsafe) because he 'saw ____'s instructor doing it.'
Doh! Argh... more ground...
In the practice area I pretty much give them free reign to screw up and recover on their own, so long as I can still see sky when I look up.
However the all time worst is when a student does something totally off the wall (and unsafe) because he 'saw ____'s instructor doing it.'
mtsu_av8er
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
And you can never say "more right rudder" enough.
[/ QUOTE ]
*whew* I thought I was doing something wrong....
Student: "Oh, I have to keep the peddle pushed!"
And you can never say "more right rudder" enough.
[/ QUOTE ]
*whew* I thought I was doing something wrong....
Student: "Oh, I have to keep the peddle pushed!"
Stone Cold
Well-Known Member
I actually had a student tell me he was getting tired of hearing me say that and it would be easier for him to have quiet to concentrate in. I gave him a few minutes of quiet and kept tapping on the right rudder until he got the message. Then we went and did a power on stall and I let him spin it. He doesn't mind the right rudder comments near as much now.
[ QUOTE ]
And you can never say "more right rudder" enough.
[/ QUOTE ]
My friend is a 3000-hr SH-60B pilot and we went up in a Cessna 172 just to play around in the pattern...
I remember saying the "right rudder" a lot, along with, ... "Airspeed... " As he's pulling back the yoke to slow on final and saying "We're going too fast..." as the airspeed drops below 50 into the high 40's... "Ease off on the yoke. ... more power .... Push the nose over."
It was the first time he'd flown any fixed wing aircraft in 10 years since flying T-34C's out of Whiting.
And you can never say "more right rudder" enough.
[/ QUOTE ]
My friend is a 3000-hr SH-60B pilot and we went up in a Cessna 172 just to play around in the pattern...
I remember saying the "right rudder" a lot, along with, ... "Airspeed... " As he's pulling back the yoke to slow on final and saying "We're going too fast..." as the airspeed drops below 50 into the high 40's... "Ease off on the yoke. ... more power .... Push the nose over."
It was the first time he'd flown any fixed wing aircraft in 10 years since flying T-34C's out of Whiting.