Rest (training cycles)

falconvalley

falconvalley

Absentee Dad of the OOTSK, Runner, Cat Frustrator
I hear people talk about 2 weeks on, 1 week off, regarding training cycles. It sounds like 2 weeks are normal weeks with the quality days and then the 3rd week is a reduced week, perhaps the same intensity, just reduced load. Does anybody here follow this cycle? I don't do this specifically. I follow a plan that has a little bit of a load "dip" every few weeks, which amounts to dropping the 3rd quality day of the week for that week.

Is this 2 on- 1 off cycle a permanent thing or does anybody also add longer, more serious breaks during the year? Right now, I take 4 weeks off during the year. Two weeks are no aerobic work whatsoever and the other 2 could be jogging or biking. What is everybody else doing for longer term rest?
 
I rarely take a whole week off. My training, even while on the road, usually consists of one or two rest days per week (usually involving some activity still but at a relaxed pace) and pretty hard work outs the rest of the week. I guess everyone is different though. To me going hard for two weeks straight never gives you a chance to recover, and a whole week off is setting you back unless you have an injury.
 
Deload is a buzzword.

Overtraining is a myth


Inefficient training is common

Failure to stick to proven protocols is mainstream.
 
Pilotforhire587 said:
I rarely take a whole week off. My training, even while on the road, usually consists of one or two rest days per week (usually involving some activity still but at a relaxed pace) and pretty hard work outs the rest of the week. I guess everyone is different though. To me going hard for two weeks straight never gives you a chance to recover, and a whole week off is setting you back unless you have an injury.
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I meant to specify that the 2 weeks on would be normal training weeks with the normal number of quality days for each individual. Shoot, 2 days in a row is hard enough
 
You can't over train. You can be stupid and attempt something you aren't physically capable of. Ie, try to run a marathon without ever running a mile or squat 600 pounds and never have been under the bar.

Over training implies that all your rest and nutrition is in line and that over the course of a training cycle you lose performance.

Doesn't happen. People have mental blocks, lack of guts and piss poor work ethics but not actual physiological "back slides".
 
Dugie8 said:
You can't over train. You can be stupid and attempt something you aren't physically capable of. Ie, try to run a marathon without ever running a mile or squat 600 pounds and never have been under the bar.

Over training implies that all your rest and nutrition is in line and that over the course of a training cycle you lose performance.

Doesn't happen. People have mental blocks, lack of guts and piss poor work ethics but not actual physiological "back slides".
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Over training means chronic training with inadequate rest for your body to recover. As such there is a lot of evidence to support this. Hec here is published evidence from last month and there are plenty of other sources:

Prevention, diagnosis and treatment of the overtraining syndrome: Joint consensus statement of the European College of Sport Science (ECSS) and the American College of Sports Medicine (ACSM): http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/17461391.2012.730061

Abstract
Successful training must involve overload, but also must avoid the combination of excessive overload plus inadequate recovery. Athletes can experience short-term performance decrement, without severe psychological, or lasting other negative symptoms. This Functional Overreaching (FOR) will eventually lead to an improvement in performance after recovery. When athletes do not sufficiently respect the balance between training and recovery, Non-Functional Overreaching (NFOR) can occur. The distinction between NFOR and the Overtraining Syndrome (OTS) is very difficult and will depend on the clinical outcome and exclusion diagnosis. The athlete will often show the same clinical, hormonal and other signs and symptoms. A keyword in the recognition of OTS might be ‘prolonged maladaptation’ not only of the athlete, but also of several biological, neurochemical, and hormonal regulation mechanisms. It is generally thought that symptoms of OTS, such as fatigue, performance decline and mood disturbances, are more severe than those of NFOR. However, there is no scientific evidence to either confirmor refute this suggestion. One approach to understanding the aetiology of OTS involves the exclusion of organic diseases or infections and factors such as dietary caloric restriction (negative energy balance) and insufficient carbohydrate and/or protein intake, iron deficiency, magnesium deficiency, allergies, etc., together with identification of initiating events or triggers. In this paper, we provide the recent status of possible markers for the detection of OTS. Currently several markers (hormones, performance tests, psychological tests, biochemical and immune markers) are used, but none of them meets all criteria to make its use generally accepted.
 
Dugie8 said:
You can't over train. You can be stupid and attempt something you aren't physically capable of. Ie, try to run a marathon without ever running a mile or squat 600 pounds and never have been under the bar.

Over training implies that all your rest and nutrition is in line and that over the course of a training cycle you lose performance.

Doesn't happen. People have mental blocks, lack of guts and piss poor work ethics but not actual physiological "back slides".
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I think you misunderstand the whole principle behind the problems that arise when you overtrain, or what happens, unless you are just trying to troll here.

I don't know if you ride or not but it is very possible to over train at any cardio endurance sport. I go out and ride between 40 and 60 miles regularly at a very high intensity. Even with a diet built for these kind of work outs and attempts to get an adequate amount of sleep every night you can still "overtrain." Your body needs a rest day or two off with light or no activity (just enough to get the blood moving) each week. If you don't get that and continue to push yourself through the flags your body will start to throw and ignore them it can be harmful. Even in strength training, why do you think you work different muscle groups like upper and lower body on different days instead of just doing upper all week. Its to prevent over training. There is medical research to back it up. If you really think overtraining is not possible I would urge you to ask our own doctor about it.
 
Dugie8 said:
Over training implies that all your rest and nutrition is in line and that over the course of a training cycle you lose performance.

".
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Acadia said:
No trying to hammer you, but your claim is an extraordinary one that is not congruent with quite a bit of research

Abstract
Successful training must involve overload, but also must avoid the combination of excessive overload plus inadequate recovery
.
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Pretty much what I have said. Your assumption that this is MY claim is also false. The vast majority of respected coaches of high level athletes share this view (you can't overtrain, you under-rest). Recovery isn't sitting on the couch cupping your balls either.

I lift 6-8 sessions a week, 1.5 to 2 hours a session. All lifts work up to at or within 5% of my maxes during at least one session on any given day. I snatch, clean and jerk, squat and accessory work, EVERY SESSION. Been doing that for about a year now since making the switch from strongman to olympic lifting. I am in no way special, genetically gifted or anything of an outlier statistically. I lift, eat and sleep as needed and follow a well planned out protocol for making gains. My training has and end goal it isn't just something I do for social status or to say "I work out". It is easy for me to tell when I don't eat enough or get enough sleep. That isn't over training (OTS) that is not doing what needs to be done to support my desired training pace. It would be very difficult for the average athlete (someone who works full time and trains/competes on a "hobby" basis, which I do) to overtrain, ie exceed the body's ability to recover even with proper food and rest.

Omega 3 is a wonder drug....
 
Dugie8 said:
It would be very difficult for the average athlete (someone who works full time and trains/competes on a "hobby" basis, which I do) to overtrain, ie exceed the body's ability to recover even with proper food and rest.
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I don't know about anaerobic training like lifting, but in the cardio world an average athlete can easily over train. Again, you claimed that there is no evidence to support over training when in fact there are many studies that look at this very subject. It is partially a question of semantics, but if you don't have adequate recovery for your level of training, you are likely doing more harm than good of you keep at that pace for too long. If you have adequate recovery then you are not meeting the definition of over training.
 
Interesting but the definition of "overtrain" is on trial here. I have the same hang up about the term "overtired". "Oh Jr is just overtired!!" Really? Is that even possible? I prefer "too tired to function like people want me to". What is abnormal to some may be perfectly fine to others.
 
falconvalley said:
I meant to specify that the 2 weeks on would be normal training weeks with the normal number of quality days for each individual. Shoot, 2 days in a row is hard enough
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I look at one month as a cycle. The first week is lighter weight more reps, such 12 - 15 reps. Week 2 is 10 - 12 with a but more weight. Week 3 is 6 - 8 and week 4 is 4 - 6. Workout out 2 days take 1 off. Workout another 2 days and take 2 off.

If you are only doing cardio. Treat it the same way. Slower longer early in the month and quicker shorter as the month goes on.

I would shoot for the two on 1 off, two on two off. You do need to give your body a chance to rest and rebuild, and there is such a thing as overtraining. It doesn't end in damage or getting hurt. It ends in not being able to do more cardio like you think you would. You sort of plateau and that's it. Eat protein and let the body rest.
 
I try to do an hour run and drone along one day. Then I'll do a short Fartlek circuit.

I went for a nice run this morning, but the elevation and grade of the path in my neighborhood is an ass kicker. At least for me.
 
2 weeks on 1 week off sounds like waaaay too much rest.

It depends largely on what your actual training looks like. People training for a race or fight (things I'm familiar with) will often run 8 week camps with build ups, then a taper of several days to a week for the event, and then a recovery week post event... then resume. One thing to be aware of is that recovery and rest are sometimes best done active, meaning light aerobics and stretching, not sitting on a couch.

If you're just doing daily maintenance training plan with no specific event/goal you are ramping for then just one day of rest per week is probably totally sufficient for a mental break, it's not a physical rest issue.

Anybody who claims overtraining doesn't exist has never seriously trained.
 
rframe said:
2 weeks on 1 week off sounds like waaaay too much rest.

It depends largely on what your actual training looks like. People training for a race or fight (things I'm familiar with) will often run 8 week camps with build ups, then a taper of several days to a week for the event, and then a recovery week post event... then resume. One thing to be aware of is that recovery and rest are sometimes best done active, meaning light aerobics and stretching, not sitting on a couch.

If you're just doing daily maintenance training plan with no specific event/goal you are ramping for then just one day of rest per week is probably totally sufficient for a mental break, it's not a physical rest issue.

Anybody who claims overtraining doesn't exist has never seriously trained.
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Yeah, I often think about that approach and wonder how it affects your body long term. I hear elite coaches talk about rest but they never specify what kind of rest. It sounds like it's individual dependent. Some people can keep going without any extended breaks from an activity but most people aren't in tune enough with their body to know how much rest to get to avoid a stress injury.
 
rframe said:
2 weeks on 1 week off sounds like waaaay too much rest.

It depends largely on what your actual training looks like. People training for a race or fight (things I'm familiar with) will often run 8 week camps with build ups, then a taper of several days to a week for the event, and then a recovery week post event... then resume. One thing to be aware of is that recovery and rest are sometimes best done active, meaning light aerobics and stretching, not sitting on a couch.

If you're just doing daily maintenance training plan with no specific event/goal you are ramping for then just one day of rest per week is probably totally sufficient for a mental break, it's not a physical rest issue.

Anybody who claims overtraining doesn't exist has never seriously trained.
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I think the the off week is supposed to include the quality days as normal, but you just like cut total load in half, for example. If one session was six 1000 meter runs at 6 minute mile pace with 1 minute rests in between, the off week plan would be 3 instead of 6 of them or something like that. The idea would be to allow your body to catch up if there is any part of the build up process that could get behind. Some people might say that's not necessary unless you feel tired. I just don't know if people that follow that cycle ever take time off completely and start a new cycle after a few months at it.

Derg said:
I try to do an hour run and drone along one day. Then I'll do a short Fartlek circuit.

I went for a nice run this morning, but the elevation and grade of the path in my neighborhood is an ass kicker. At least for me.
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Hills...yeah I think those can kill you if you don't do them regularly. I did zero hill work last year and all it took was one little hill in one 5k that I ran to take me out. I was reasonably close to the leader until then and he just kept on truckin while I was trying to get myself back together.
 
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