Requirement to log duel given time? or sign logbook?

Snow

Snow

'Not a new member'
Hey I was just wondering, if your giving instruction, is it a requirement to log it as duel given or just optional? I ask because I did a checkout on someone, so I want to log it as PIC but I didn't really do any teaching so I don't know if I really want to log it a duel given.

Also is it a requirement to have your logbook signed if you've had duel recived?
 
Don't have my FAR/AIM handy, but I think it's a reg that if it's considered flight instruction, then you have to log dual given and sign the logbook. Me personally, I consider a checkout flight instruction.
 
It's dual, not duel, and the FAA calls it training time now. See 61.1(b)(16)

"is it a requirement to have your logbook signed if you've had duel recived?"

Yes. See 61.51(h)(2)(ii)

Now, you did a checkout but you didn't "teach" the guy anything. That's what you're saying, right? Do you think he learned anything during the flight that he might not have if you weren't there? Did you just sit there the whole time and not even say one word? I think you are taking the intent of the word "training" way too literally. You don't have to be teaching the guy lazy 8's for it to be considered flight training. I think the FAA leaves it vague on purpose.

I guess you could argue, if you wanted to (nobody does), that if you feel you didn't engage in any "training time" with him that you have no right to log it as PIC.

In my book, you were in the seat as an authorized instructor with all the rights and responsibilites empowered to you by the FAA and you darn well have the right to log the time.

Didn't they teach you this stuff at Flight Safety Academy?
 
[ QUOTE ]
but I didn't really do any teaching

[/ QUOTE ]

This question comes up from time to time and I'm always surprised at the number of CFIs who seem to offer no flight training during a checkout. No tips, no comments, no suggestions, no critique, and no evaluation of flight abilities.

I'm sure the FBO would be thrilled with that last one.

Me? I haven't met any of them. I've been flying at strange FBOs on vacations even since I earned my private. So far, I have never failed to learn something fro the checkout CFI. And I really hope those I've flown with since I got my CFI feel the same way about me.
 
If you don't log it as dual given, you can't log it at all. The other pilot was rated in the aircraft, and was fully acting as PIC. The only reason you can log the time at all was because the FAA allows CFIs to log PIC when they give instruction, reguardless of whether or not they are acting as PIC. If it was not dual given then you were simply a passenger along for the ride and cannot log the time at all. But you were exercising your priveleages as a CFI. Even if you didn't teach him anything, you were being paid to evaluate the pilot's abilities, and you would have taught him something had he needed to learn it, and hopefully you would have prevented an accident had he done something unsafe. Its not your fault he was a good pilot and you didn't need to say anything.
 
So, basically this guy paid you to do absolutely nothing?

I highly doubt you did nothing. I would HOPE you at least did SOMETHING worthy of payment, otherwise give the guy his money back. You are there to evaluate his flying abilities. Then give him a logbook endorsement as a flight instructor stating he is safe. That constitues you being able to log it as PIC and Dual Given.

But, in any event, you were doing an aircraft checkout for your school. Without YOUR signature in his logbook, he isn't checked out to rent. If he bangs up a plane and the school wants to know why he was allowed to rent, and you say you did a checkout, but did nothing, I think you'd be losing a job.

Just try to look at each flight knowing there is SOMETHING to teach. If they are excellent pilots, they could still use some local area advice, school procedures for checking out aircraft advice, something...
 
Hum, didn't quite look at it that way before, thanks. I take the "I certify that the entries in this log are true" statement seriously, I only want to log stuff that I truly earned, I don't round up hours or any of that other stuff that some people do.
 
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