Reminder to all those in flight training now

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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

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Hmmmm, interesting quote, but in this day and age it doesn't fit and if it doesn't fit you must acquit LOL. Had to entertain myself for a second there.
After 9/11 when people were at the peak of calling for national security. Many politicians and high ranking military officers went on record stating that the security asked for would infringe upon many liberties we have.
These liberties are being used against us and before you know it you'll be saying things just ain't the same, if you're not saying it already.
You can't keep your eye off the ultimate goal which is national security. I don't think one action is gonna do it all, so you have to start somewhere.
OK, since you don't like the idea if you were the man what would you propose. I know I'd start by having Chris Rock as president.

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I'd rather the liberties be used against us, as long as we have the liberties.
 
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You can't keep your eye off the ultimate goal which is national security..

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...and that would be the root of our disagreement.

In my opinion the ultimate goal is our freedom.
 
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You can't keep your eye off the ultimate goal which is national security..

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...and that would be the root of our disagreement.

In my opinion the ultimate goal is our freedom.

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With that info, I would concur
 
They are essentially asking flight instructors to do the government's job of ensuring the people who are already pilots should be pilots. The government has had plenty of time to cross check the certified airmen database against the terrorist watch list. Yet cfis are now supposed to be government screeners as well as flight instructors.

Also realize that no one is required to submit any paperwork to the TSA if the person requesting training is already a citizen of the USA. So what safety is gained?

And for a real foreign terrorist, at least we'll get $130 out of 'em before they do a sucicide attack
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And what's up with taking a photo of a foreign person when they ask for flight training? If they're wearing a turbin does their mug go in the terrorist pile?

Besides this rule is such a mess right now; the TSA has already amended it since it came out TODAY. So should the well-meaning cfi really be expected to spend a half hour before his next student to find the up-to-the-second info on this rule just so he can be legal?
 
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AOPA is doing a great job with fixing up this new law.

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What?

Are you serious?

This is the same organization that claims to 'fight for' the average pilot. And at their convention starting tomorrow in Long Beach, they have the head of the TSA as a guest. The same part of the government that made up this stupid new requirement. I'd expect a lot of boos and such if the TSA guy actually tries to speak.
 
looks like he will be speaking.
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TSA chief to speak at AOPA Expo

Transportation Security Administration (TSA) chief David M. Stone will be speaking at 9 a.m. on Friday at AOPA Expo. The free general session will mark the first time that the head of the TSA has met face-to-face with AOPA members. If you can't make it to Long Beach, California, for the show, look for coverage on Virtual Expo immediately following the event. There will be a recorded audio/video presentation as well a story hitting the highlights in text form.
 
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Those willing to give up a little liberty for a little security deserve neither security nor liberty.

Benjamin Franklin

[/ QUOTE ]hmmm, not to take this into politics.. but what does that say about our society today eh? time to vote for the "other guy" who hasn't done just that above....because we all know now that the above line has already been crossed....

/endpoliticalstatement
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[ QUOTE ]
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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmmm, interesting quote, but in this day and age it doesn't fit and if it doesn't fit you must acquit LOL. Had to entertain myself for a second there.
After 9/11 when people were at the peak of calling for national security. Many politicians and high ranking military officers went on record stating that the security asked for would infringe upon many liberties we have.

[/ QUOTE ] And yet, they did it anyway didn't they?

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These liberties are being used against us and before you know it you'll be saying things just ain't the same, if you're not saying it already.
You can't keep your eye off the ultimate goal which is national security. I don't think one action is gonna do it all, so you have to start somewhere.
OK, since you don't like the idea if you were the man what would you propose. I know I'd start by having Chris Rock as president.

[/ QUOTE ]or woman perhaps?

I like the idea of keeping our eye on the ultimate goal of "freedom" as national security takes away *our* America and turns it into a laffingstock of "what freedom?" vs "America the free"....in some senses, i feel as though the red tape we have to go thru now a days (esp for you pilots) is no longer a *united* effort. and we are supposed to be a *United States* right?

sure.. we take away the privelege of being able to fly without completely being scrutinized each time we go to take a bird into the air...no big deal, just show additional paperwork....BAH! what's next, fingerprints to get into the grocery store? haha
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truth be known, terrorists are never going to go away.. there will never be a world without terrorists of some sort.. so we really should learn to live amongst them and just keep a watchful eye like we did in years past! just IMO
 
yeah, note I said 'tries to speak'.

I don't think he'll be able to get a word in past the noise of the audience, unless it is to say there was a major mistake made, and this was not intended to put a huge useless burdon on underpaid, overworked flight instructors (which is all this rule really does).
 
about if you are not US born citizen(I am one of them), you can go through Department of Homeland security(formly known as department of justice). Here is a little program to assist you through the process. The link is below

https://www.flightschoolcandidates.gov/index.html

I have been told it takes about 2 months or so. If you have not go through application process of US citizenship, 2 months are relatively short.

adreamer
 
It looks as if the new TSA rule has been amended and extended until December 20, 2004. Under the amended version of the rule the flight instructors would have to look at the pilot's citizenship documents and make a notation in the pilot's logbook the documents don't have to be kept on file for 5 years

Amended TSA Rule
 
I was going to say the same thing. I saw the AOPA "news" yesterday from the link you posted. But, I was not able to find an official change to the rule.

Sorry, I just don't consider AOPA a good legal source
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My guess is something else will change tomorrow, or shortly after that, if the TSA chief gets to say a few words at the expo.
 
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That sucks:( Now my aviation career is all messed up. No solo at 16...no PPL at 17.
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[/ QUOTE ]Not necessarily, Brian. It's a pain, but doable. The rule doesn't prevent you from training. It requires a security check. Your flight school should provide you an alien registration form. Then you bring that to your local police station, get fingerprinted, and they send it on to TSA. It costs you $133.00.

At some point you will receive a document that you can turn into the flight school to confirm your eligibility.

The catch is that, as the rule is currently written, this is a "per flight school" clearance. So if you change schools you need to go through the whole process again.

There is an "alien" registration site at https://www.flightschoolcandidates.gov/
 
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I was going to say the same thing. I saw the AOPA "news" yesterday from the link you posted. But, I was not able to find an official change to the rule.

Sorry, I just don't consider AOPA a good legal source
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My guess is something else will change tomorrow, or shortly after that, if the TSA chief gets to say a few words at the expo.

[/ QUOTE ]I posted the link to the official TSA interpretation letter yesterday. The rule amendments, if any, have not yet appeared in the federal Register.
 
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That sucks:( Now my aviation career is all messed up. No solo at 16...no PPL at 17.
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[/ QUOTE ]Not necessarily, Brian. It's a pain, but doable. The rule doesn't prevent you from training. It requires a security check. Your flight school should provide you an alien registration form. Then you bring that to your local police station, get fingerprinted, and they send it on to TSA. It costs you $133.00.

At some point you will receive a document that you can turn into the flight school to confirm your eligibility.

The catch is that, as the rule is currently written, this is a "per flight school" clearance. So if you change schools you need to go through the whole process again.

There is an "alien" registration site at https://www.flightschoolcandidates.gov/

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is this until I get my green card or become a US citizen?
 
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is this until I get my green card or become a US citizen?

[/ QUOTE ]Until you are a citizen. Then all a flight school would need is proof of citizenship in the form of a US Passport or your naturalization papers. It's only non-citizens that have to go through the registration rigmarole.

But hopefully there will be some rational changes to the process and/or the US Government will finally have the database capabilities that are available to everyone else.
 
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