I was thinking about attending ATP's regional jet certification class, and I was wondering if it is worth the $6,000 for the week...It's good that you get the reduced minimums by the airlines...but is that all you need to do (besides meet the required minimum flying time) to be eligible for those reduced minimums? What if you get hired on by an airline and youre placed flying Saabs or ATRs...i would think all of that CRJ training would be wasted. Let me know what you guys think...
Regiona Jet Certification class questions
- Thread starter jelloy
- Start date
SIUAv8r
RJ Commander
:yeahthat:
Captain_Bob
Well-Known Member
A) Nothing at all...
B) Some folks don't consider it a waste. Some folks have the funds available to do it. Some folks like the fact that they can get hired at reduced mins. Some folks don't have the "networking" contacts that help others get hired quicker. Some folks actually "enjoy" the training. Some folks feel more prepared and confident going into any 121 ground school after getting a "snapshot" of basic systems, memory items, call-outs, manuevers, and experience in a cockpit of a 121 aircraft.
B) Some folks don't consider it a waste. Some folks have the funds available to do it. Some folks like the fact that they can get hired at reduced mins. Some folks don't have the "networking" contacts that help others get hired quicker. Some folks actually "enjoy" the training. Some folks feel more prepared and confident going into any 121 ground school after getting a "snapshot" of basic systems, memory items, call-outs, manuevers, and experience in a cockpit of a 121 aircraft.
JBUCREW
Well-Known Member
Nothing is wrong with flying a turbo-prop.... BUT with the washout rate at some regionals flyings ERJ/CRJ's being almost 2:1 I dont really see it as a waste... Your getting a crash course on systems/flows/call-outs. For many people going from a 172 to an RJ can be quite a jump, and from the numbers I am hearing from some regionals it sounds like the numbers prove it.
Stone Cold
Well-Known Member
Be careful, DE727...you're sounding like me, now!!!
:rotfl:
:rotfl:
SIUav8er
Narcosis
...hence the regional jet course that ATP has. From what Ive seen and heard about the program, it is very good. basically modeled after an airline groundschool. I think the 6K is worth it, especally for the reduced hiring mins
Stone Cold
Well-Known Member
I think he's referring to getting actual experience, not "playing" in a magical box. Yes, it'll help you do the call-outs right, and give you an insight into the systems, but it will not substitute for real world experience flying an airplane in the system, and all the learning that comes with it. No, I'm not just talking about freight, there are other ways to fly in the system to build up experience before you step into a jet.
Just my perspective, and what I inferred from the conversation.
SmitteyB
Well-Known Member
SIU, I know you don't see it now...But programs like that are a good reason why airline pilot jobs aren't what they used to be.
Would you pay $600 bucks for training flipping burgers at McDonalds? Just to get McDonalds to say "Wow, he's got some advance training!"
I'm guessing you'd say no. But then why do people think they need to get an RJ class? If you instruct...learn a little more and then apply, you're going to save $6,000.
These races to the bottoms are what keep pilot pay down.
Airline ABC: Why should we pay PILOT1 $35/hour first year when he'll pay $6000 to fly it for $19/ hour?"
Simply, if you feel you must do it, then do it. But think twice about what you're doing to the rest of us who are trying to get into it as well, and still preserve a little respect of the profession.
Is ATP a great school? YES, they're top notch.
Captain_Bob
Well-Known Member
It's more than half off for instructors.... It's exactly half for previous Career Pilot Students.
Bob
That's completely understandable... and commendable... no one is saying your view is wrong.
Bob
flyingmaniac
Well-Known Member
Well you have to decide will it cost you $6000 to get to the normal minimums?
SmitteyB
Well-Known Member
GREAT POINT.
SmitteyB
Well-Known Member
blee256
Well-Known Member
From what I hear its a great training program. You learn a lot and its a great experience. With that said. For 6K, what you're really paying for are reduced mins and the guarenteed interview. Because honestly if that didnt come with the package, you wouldnt even consider it. And even for half price, the instructors at ATP wouldnt do it either if it didnt lead to a job. WHen the program was first introduced, it was offered for free ( I think) and people were turning it down. But once some of the guinea pigs started getting picked up by Expressjet, thats when the flood gates opened and everyone and their mom signed up.
ATP was done a great job with obtaining agreements and partnerships with other airlines. Basically your paying 6K or whatever the amount is for the connection that ATP has set up for you.
If you want to get to an airline the quickest way possible. This is it. If you are doing it to learn about the CRJ or to get a head start in Airline Ground School. Its a waste of money. Because there were a few CFIs in my class that flew nothing bigger than a seminole and didnt have any problems finishing training.
You're paying 6K to get the guarenteed interview. Because if it was for the experience/learning/certification only, why not pay another 1000 to get a 737 type instead.? Wouldnt the extra 1000 dollars for a FAA recognized type rating on the worlds most popular jet be a lot more valuable than a CRJ standardization certificate that holds no weight?
And smitty B, i agree with you 100%. I have been preaching that for years. ok, months. haha...
ATP was done a great job with obtaining agreements and partnerships with other airlines. Basically your paying 6K or whatever the amount is for the connection that ATP has set up for you.
If you want to get to an airline the quickest way possible. This is it. If you are doing it to learn about the CRJ or to get a head start in Airline Ground School. Its a waste of money. Because there were a few CFIs in my class that flew nothing bigger than a seminole and didnt have any problems finishing training.
You're paying 6K to get the guarenteed interview. Because if it was for the experience/learning/certification only, why not pay another 1000 to get a 737 type instead.? Wouldnt the extra 1000 dollars for a FAA recognized type rating on the worlds most popular jet be a lot more valuable than a CRJ standardization certificate that holds no weight?
And smitty B, i agree with you 100%. I have been preaching that for years. ok, months. haha...
MoMatt
Well-Known Member
Speaking from experience, No. I went through a similar program and am still paying for it. Luckily, the loan was nearly interest free. Blee256 said it; you are paying for the reduced minimums and the guaranteed interview.
Let's break it down. You could argue that if you have a decent amount of total time and multiengine time, this class would help you get an airline interview.
But, remember that you are guaranteed an interview, not a job. Provided the airline is hiring pilots, you still have to be liked and perform well during the interview.
If this is the case, and you do have a respectable amount of multiengine time, there are much better ways to spend your $6000.
If you are short on flying time and you do this class, what happens after the class? You'll have "graduated" from a CRJ course, but nobody wants to look at your resume until you have more flight time.
If you really have $6000 burning a hole in your pocket, consider this.
-Find an airline pilot that is a current CFI or an AGI (I'll bet there's a few on these forums). Pay them $50 / hour to help you learn 121 regulations, basic RJ (or turboprop) systems, the concepts of crew coordination, and checklist flows/callouts/profiles etc. After 10 hours of that, you're down $500.
-Study on your own, for free, the things you learned from above.
-Put the other $5500 in the bank. If you want an interview, find an airline pilot and buy them a cup of coffee for $5 (or 5 cups for $25), and convince them you are not an idiot. I'll bet most would be willing to help you out.
-If you are short on flight time, take the remaining $5475 and find a seminole or duchess to rent. Take a friend with you and go fly off the $5475 under the hood, getting cross country time and practicing instrument approaches. This will help your performance during the job interview.
How much multiengine time could you buy with $5475?
How much multiengine time would you get for $6000 at the RJ class?
DE727UPS
Well-Known Member
"what you're really paying for are reduced mins and the guarenteed interview"
"Basically your paying 6K or whatever the amount is for the connection that ATP has set up for you"
"You're paying 6K to get the guarenteed interview."
There's something about this whole "buy an interview" thing that rubs me the wrong way. It just doesn't seem honorable.
I can't figure out why people are in such a hurry to get a regional job that they feel the need to spend thier way into the quickest possible seniority number. Seniority is nice but I'd draw the line much higher.
"why not pay another 1000 to get a 737 type instead"
I'll tell ya why. Cause a 300 hour dude isn't gonna make it through the program. See HPA's prereqs:
"To qualify for the all simulator course, you must meet at least one of the following requirements:
Hold a type rating on another turbojet, or have been appointed by military service as a PIC of a multi-engine aircraft
Have at least 2000 hours of actual flight time, with 500 hours in multi-engine turbine aircraft
Have at least 500 hours of flight time in the B-737
Have at least 1000 hours of flight time in at least two different airplanes requiring a type rating"
These type rating schools are set up to give HIGHLY experienced pilots a type at min cost. To get a 300 hour guy through the checkride would take....ummmm....quite a bit more than 7K.
Now, I'll admit, both the ATP RJ course and guys getting a 737 type to catch SWA's attention are "paying for an interview". I guess I have a lot harder time seeing 300-500 hour guys pulling this stuff to enter the career with bare min quals than I do with a highly experienced regional Capt trying to move on.
"Basically your paying 6K or whatever the amount is for the connection that ATP has set up for you"
"You're paying 6K to get the guarenteed interview."
There's something about this whole "buy an interview" thing that rubs me the wrong way. It just doesn't seem honorable.
I can't figure out why people are in such a hurry to get a regional job that they feel the need to spend thier way into the quickest possible seniority number. Seniority is nice but I'd draw the line much higher.
"why not pay another 1000 to get a 737 type instead"
I'll tell ya why. Cause a 300 hour dude isn't gonna make it through the program. See HPA's prereqs:
"To qualify for the all simulator course, you must meet at least one of the following requirements:
Hold a type rating on another turbojet, or have been appointed by military service as a PIC of a multi-engine aircraft
Have at least 2000 hours of actual flight time, with 500 hours in multi-engine turbine aircraft
Have at least 500 hours of flight time in the B-737
Have at least 1000 hours of flight time in at least two different airplanes requiring a type rating"
These type rating schools are set up to give HIGHLY experienced pilots a type at min cost. To get a 300 hour guy through the checkride would take....ummmm....quite a bit more than 7K.
Now, I'll admit, both the ATP RJ course and guys getting a 737 type to catch SWA's attention are "paying for an interview". I guess I have a lot harder time seeing 300-500 hour guys pulling this stuff to enter the career with bare min quals than I do with a highly experienced regional Capt trying to move on.