Question for USMC types
- Thread starter MikeD
- Start date
mtsu_av8er
Well-Known Member
Basically, Master Sergeants make Master Gunnery Sergeants and First Sergeants make Sergeant Majors.
Whenever you become a Master Sergeant, you pretty much stay within your technical field. You won't venture outside of it much. It is a technical position, and not one that requires much in the way of leadership.
If you decide to go the First Sergeant route, you could find yourself in practically any ground combat unit (every company/battery has a First Sergeant, and it doesn't matter what his original MOS is - he's now a 9999). Every Marine Corps unit at the battalion/squadron level has a Sergeant Major that approves the Skipper's thoughts
. Again, he's a 9999 - background doesn't matter.
Although I hate generalizations, you'll generally find that the sharpest and most squared away of the Gunnery Sergeants become First Sergeants. those that are just making the cut or are just wasting time until retirement will go the Master Sergeant/Master gunnery Sergeant route. Not always, but most of the time. Why? It's easier. There's no leadership (on a major scale), no crazy responsibilities outside of what you're used to, and no ground combat unit (the air wing guys are scared sh*tless of being in a grunt unit....wussies
). In addition, most of the air wingers aren't as squared away anyway and think we're crazy for wasting time on such trivial stuff. Oh, well...that's why I got out....
I'd had enough...time to go play new games.
I digress....
Here's a perfect example of a Marine that wasn't even an infantryman that decided to go the First Sergeant route.
Hope that answered your question....
Whenever you become a Master Sergeant, you pretty much stay within your technical field. You won't venture outside of it much. It is a technical position, and not one that requires much in the way of leadership.
If you decide to go the First Sergeant route, you could find yourself in practically any ground combat unit (every company/battery has a First Sergeant, and it doesn't matter what his original MOS is - he's now a 9999). Every Marine Corps unit at the battalion/squadron level has a Sergeant Major that approves the Skipper's thoughts
Although I hate generalizations, you'll generally find that the sharpest and most squared away of the Gunnery Sergeants become First Sergeants. those that are just making the cut or are just wasting time until retirement will go the Master Sergeant/Master gunnery Sergeant route. Not always, but most of the time. Why? It's easier. There's no leadership (on a major scale), no crazy responsibilities outside of what you're used to, and no ground combat unit (the air wing guys are scared sh*tless of being in a grunt unit....wussies
I digress....
Here's a perfect example of a Marine that wasn't even an infantryman that decided to go the First Sergeant route.
Hope that answered your question....
TravelinMan
New Member
I have to disagree about your generalizations of MasterGunnies and SgtMajs. Some guys just don't want to be administrative heads (1stSgts/SgtMaj), some want to stay in their job field (MSgt/MGySgt). So it's no so much about squared away-ness (it's a word because I said so), but more about motivation, in my opinoin anymay. OOH-RAH KILL!
mtsu_av8er
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I have to disagree about your generalizations of MasterGunnies and SgtMajs. Some guys just don't want to be administrative heads (1stSgts/SgtMaj), some want to stay in their job field (MSgt/MGySgt). So it's no so much about squared away-ness (it's a word because I said so), but more about motivation, in my opinoin anymay. OOH-RAH KILL!
[/ QUOTE ]
Motivation is not just a mindset, it's a part of being a squared away Marine....
And like I said in my post, it is a generalization, and as such isn't always the case. I served for eight years, and I met two squared away Master Sergeants - so, there are exceptions.
And come on, leatherneck - you know as well as I do that most of the Master Sergeants/Master Gunns aren't exactly Poster Marine SNCOs...
I have to disagree about your generalizations of MasterGunnies and SgtMajs. Some guys just don't want to be administrative heads (1stSgts/SgtMaj), some want to stay in their job field (MSgt/MGySgt). So it's no so much about squared away-ness (it's a word because I said so), but more about motivation, in my opinoin anymay. OOH-RAH KILL!
[/ QUOTE ]
Motivation is not just a mindset, it's a part of being a squared away Marine....
And like I said in my post, it is a generalization, and as such isn't always the case. I served for eight years, and I met two squared away Master Sergeants - so, there are exceptions.
And come on, leatherneck - you know as well as I do that most of the Master Sergeants/Master Gunns aren't exactly Poster Marine SNCOs...
phrog_driver
New Member
Both the SgtMajs who came from grunt units to my squadron have said that the wing works way harder than the grunt side. The 03s work hard in the field, but in garrison, and especially on the boat, the wing Marines are still turning wrenches well into the rack time of the grunts.
mtsu_av8er
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Both the SgtMajs who came from grunt units to my squadron have said that the wing works way harder than the grunt side. The 03s work hard in the field, but in garrison, and especially on the boat, the wing Marines are still turning wrenches well into the rack time of the grunts.
[/ QUOTE ]
Having served on both sides, I've heard that alot. In terms of man hours, I'm not sure that you could compare them...it's kinda tough. They are totally different jobs, technically speaking.
When I was in the grunts, we spent at least 60% of our time in the field. During deployments or work-ups, it was more than that. When we were in the field, we lived in the field. No hot chow (ok, maybe once per week, on a long evolution), very hot water and no luxuries. We carried everything we needed on our backs, and didn't get very much sleep.
In garrisson, we spent alot of our time maintaining our gear. Lot's of classes, weapons cleaning and administrative stuff. That's the only time we got to do that crap. And we ran PT daily, without fail. If we were in the field for a long period of time (more than 10 days) then we often ran PT there, too.
I got to the wing and I got to see the other side. Was there more work? No, just a different kind of work. In 8 years, I leanred that everybody probably works about the same, whether you're a flight line mech, a machine gunner or a service record book clerk. In the wing, we spent alot of time turning wrenches in the middle of the night, trying to keep aircraft up.
The differences? I've never seen such a high percentage of Marines on weight control as I did when I went to the wing. We never ran PT, because "we didn't have time".
Discipline was at an all-time low, because "we can't be too rough on these Marines, or we'll stress them out". I had Lance Corporals upset because I went high and to the right for them calling me by my first name. I had to square Staff Sergeants away and "suggest" that they either wear a pressed uniform or stay out of the shop.
The work level was the same. In the wing, there's just no discipline. The hair was too long and the bellies were too big. Wanna be a fat body, get out and become a civilian (like me!!
).
I remember when I went up for squadron NCO of the quarter (which I won, of course and went all the way to the Wing Board
). One of the questions was "What is the cycle of operations for the M-16A2 Service Rifle?". Do you know how many people knew the answer to that question? Me. That was it - one Marine Corporal. That's BS, and I don't care how you twist it.
You wanna call yourself a Corporal of Killers? Walk the walk, don't just talk it. Otherwise, there are three other branches that could use some "wrench turners". I wanna serve with Marines.
Both the SgtMajs who came from grunt units to my squadron have said that the wing works way harder than the grunt side. The 03s work hard in the field, but in garrison, and especially on the boat, the wing Marines are still turning wrenches well into the rack time of the grunts.
[/ QUOTE ]
Having served on both sides, I've heard that alot. In terms of man hours, I'm not sure that you could compare them...it's kinda tough. They are totally different jobs, technically speaking.
When I was in the grunts, we spent at least 60% of our time in the field. During deployments or work-ups, it was more than that. When we were in the field, we lived in the field. No hot chow (ok, maybe once per week, on a long evolution), very hot water and no luxuries. We carried everything we needed on our backs, and didn't get very much sleep.
In garrisson, we spent alot of our time maintaining our gear. Lot's of classes, weapons cleaning and administrative stuff. That's the only time we got to do that crap. And we ran PT daily, without fail. If we were in the field for a long period of time (more than 10 days) then we often ran PT there, too.
I got to the wing and I got to see the other side. Was there more work? No, just a different kind of work. In 8 years, I leanred that everybody probably works about the same, whether you're a flight line mech, a machine gunner or a service record book clerk. In the wing, we spent alot of time turning wrenches in the middle of the night, trying to keep aircraft up.
The differences? I've never seen such a high percentage of Marines on weight control as I did when I went to the wing. We never ran PT, because "we didn't have time".
The work level was the same. In the wing, there's just no discipline. The hair was too long and the bellies were too big. Wanna be a fat body, get out and become a civilian (like me!!
I remember when I went up for squadron NCO of the quarter (which I won, of course and went all the way to the Wing Board
You wanna call yourself a Corporal of Killers? Walk the walk, don't just talk it. Otherwise, there are three other branches that could use some "wrench turners". I wanna serve with Marines.
USMCmech
Well-Known Member
Some people confuse being "squared away" with dedication and work ethic. I spent my entire time in the air wing, and I agree that it is very different. However, I have always belived that despite the differances the dedication to the Corps and our mission is the same in the end.
At HMX-1 we had our own security company composed of MPs. Most of us "airwingers" couldn't belive the BS that the guys in security had to deal with. Since thier only job was to walk around guarding the hanger all day, they had to make up stuff to compare how "squared away" each other were.
Meanwhile, on the "wing" side we were busy working our butts off and had little time to care about how shiny our flight line boots were (acctually if you worked on the presidential birds polished boots were forbiden, getting black boot polish out of light blue upolstry is a pain!). I worked in the paint shop for a year and I had two polished set of boots for wearing with my cammies, and a pair that I wore to work. Since we were always spilling paint on them, we would ocasionaly spray paint them black. One day we got word that the CO was taking a tour of our hanger, after we straightened up our shop real quick, we grabed a can of paint and were dooing our boots, when gues who walked around the corner? The SarMaj thought it was hilarous!
When a senior NCO comes from the ground side and expects things to be the same as his infantry batalion is when things get bad. We got a new squadron gunny from an infantry unit. He arrived in the winter and ordered that all non issued winter clothing (gloves, long johns, ect) were forbiden, we had been wearing black gloves, scarves, and watch caps. Supply didn't have near enough cold weather gear for every body. Well, three days later our OIC came back from visiting sick bay where four guys were being treated for frostbite due to working in temps so cold and wet that tools were freezing to whatever they were touching, including one guys hand! The CO changed that policy pretty quick.
When summer came around and the flight line was about 140 degrees, the gunny saw all of us working with our coveralls around our waist, and wearing "Camelbacks" that we bought with our own money. He did it again, no non regualtion clothing at all. Well, you guessed it, we had three cases of heat exaustion in two days. Out came the camelbacks, which are now issued to everyone.
While all this was going on the gunny spent most of his time in his airconditioned office, not having a clue about what was going on. These events and others cost him the respect of all the enlisted personel in the unit. We obeyed his orders, but that was about it.
In the air wing I have worked 48 hours without a break, in subzero temps, in weather so hot that the assphalt was melting, in pouring rain, you name it.
I always had my dress uniforms drycleaned and squared away, my cammies were always pressed, my dress boots were always shined. I always kept my self in shape, and kept my barracks room clean. However I never spent hours starching my cammies so that they would stand up by themselves. I didn't spend hours memorizing little facts about the Corps just incase my sargent ever wanted to know my 10th genral order.
On the other hand I was always aware that if I didn't do my job as a mechanic corectly people could die. I had zero tollerance for people who didn't take thier job seriously. I didn't care if your boots were shined, but if you ever pincele whiped a repair or inspection you would face my wrath!
By the way Loyd I'm not fireing back at you, just giving a diferent point of view for others to read.
At HMX-1 we had our own security company composed of MPs. Most of us "airwingers" couldn't belive the BS that the guys in security had to deal with. Since thier only job was to walk around guarding the hanger all day, they had to make up stuff to compare how "squared away" each other were.
Meanwhile, on the "wing" side we were busy working our butts off and had little time to care about how shiny our flight line boots were (acctually if you worked on the presidential birds polished boots were forbiden, getting black boot polish out of light blue upolstry is a pain!). I worked in the paint shop for a year and I had two polished set of boots for wearing with my cammies, and a pair that I wore to work. Since we were always spilling paint on them, we would ocasionaly spray paint them black. One day we got word that the CO was taking a tour of our hanger, after we straightened up our shop real quick, we grabed a can of paint and were dooing our boots, when gues who walked around the corner? The SarMaj thought it was hilarous!
When a senior NCO comes from the ground side and expects things to be the same as his infantry batalion is when things get bad. We got a new squadron gunny from an infantry unit. He arrived in the winter and ordered that all non issued winter clothing (gloves, long johns, ect) were forbiden, we had been wearing black gloves, scarves, and watch caps. Supply didn't have near enough cold weather gear for every body. Well, three days later our OIC came back from visiting sick bay where four guys were being treated for frostbite due to working in temps so cold and wet that tools were freezing to whatever they were touching, including one guys hand! The CO changed that policy pretty quick.
When summer came around and the flight line was about 140 degrees, the gunny saw all of us working with our coveralls around our waist, and wearing "Camelbacks" that we bought with our own money. He did it again, no non regualtion clothing at all. Well, you guessed it, we had three cases of heat exaustion in two days. Out came the camelbacks, which are now issued to everyone.
While all this was going on the gunny spent most of his time in his airconditioned office, not having a clue about what was going on. These events and others cost him the respect of all the enlisted personel in the unit. We obeyed his orders, but that was about it.
In the air wing I have worked 48 hours without a break, in subzero temps, in weather so hot that the assphalt was melting, in pouring rain, you name it.
I always had my dress uniforms drycleaned and squared away, my cammies were always pressed, my dress boots were always shined. I always kept my self in shape, and kept my barracks room clean. However I never spent hours starching my cammies so that they would stand up by themselves. I didn't spend hours memorizing little facts about the Corps just incase my sargent ever wanted to know my 10th genral order.
On the other hand I was always aware that if I didn't do my job as a mechanic corectly people could die. I had zero tollerance for people who didn't take thier job seriously. I didn't care if your boots were shined, but if you ever pincele whiped a repair or inspection you would face my wrath!
By the way Loyd I'm not fireing back at you, just giving a diferent point of view for others to read.
TravelinMan
New Member
I guess we just agree to disagree, however I do think that the competition is stiffer to be a 1stSgt/SgtMaj than to go the MSgt/MGySgt route, maybe that accounts for the perceived difference.
I think you are right on about the wing though. Lots of fat bodies on that side of the house that can't recall simple Marine Corps knowledge. Again this is a generalization but there is a discernible difference.
I think you are right on about the wing though. Lots of fat bodies on that side of the house that can't recall simple Marine Corps knowledge. Again this is a generalization but there is a discernible difference.
mtsu_av8er
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Some people confuse being "squared away" with dedication and work ethic.
[/ QUOTE ]
And likewise, many people confuse being a hard worker with being a squared away Marine. It's possible to do both. I managed it, and I know alot of other Marines that managed it as well...
[ QUOTE ]
However, I have always belived that despite the differances the dedication to the Corps and our mission is the same in the end.
[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed.
[ QUOTE ]
Supply didn't have near enough cold weather gear for every body.
[/ QUOTE ]
That supply unit wasn't given the proper tools. That needs to be fixed!!!
[ QUOTE ]
When summer came around and the flight line was about 140 degrees, the gunny saw all of us working with our coveralls around our waist, and wearing "Camelbacks" that we bought with our own money. He did it again, no non regualtion clothing at all. Well, you guessed it, we had three cases of heat exaustion in two days. Out came the camelbacks, which are now issued to everyone.
[/ QUOTE ]
I've humped 40 miles in one day, wearing a full combat load, carrying a machine gun, in 110 degree weather in 29 Palms. I did that for 4 years. Without a Camelback. It can be done. Drink water - lots of it - and you won't get heat exhaustion.
[ QUOTE ]
These events and others cost him the respect of all the enlisted personel in the unit. We obeyed his orders, but that was about it.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't doubt that, man. I've done the same. I never said that wingers don't work hard, because they do. I've done it. I always give props where props are due!!
[ QUOTE ]
However I never spent hours starching my cammies so that they would stand up by themselves. I didn't spend hours memorizing little facts about the Corps just incase my sargent ever wanted to know my 10th genral order.
[/ QUOTE ]
Those are things that you should have known. Those are the things that make a difference. As far as the cammies? Well....no comment...
[ QUOTE ]
On the other hand I was always aware that if I didn't do my job as a mechanic corectly people could die. I had zero tollerance for people who didn't take thier job seriously.
[/ QUOTE ]
Think that isn't the case in the infantry? Have much experience working with demolitions? How about mortars? Ever fire machine guns rounds 10 feet over the heads of another company from 1000 yards? Ever call for indirect fire, "Danger Close"??
Believe me, I can relate to that from both ends.
[ QUOTE ]
By the way Loyd I'm not fireing back at you, just giving a diferent point of view for others to read.
[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed! It's always good to exchange ideas and philosophies with another Leatherneck!!!
Semper Fi!!
Some people confuse being "squared away" with dedication and work ethic.
[/ QUOTE ]
And likewise, many people confuse being a hard worker with being a squared away Marine. It's possible to do both. I managed it, and I know alot of other Marines that managed it as well...
[ QUOTE ]
However, I have always belived that despite the differances the dedication to the Corps and our mission is the same in the end.
[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed.
[ QUOTE ]
Supply didn't have near enough cold weather gear for every body.
[/ QUOTE ]
That supply unit wasn't given the proper tools. That needs to be fixed!!!
[ QUOTE ]
When summer came around and the flight line was about 140 degrees, the gunny saw all of us working with our coveralls around our waist, and wearing "Camelbacks" that we bought with our own money. He did it again, no non regualtion clothing at all. Well, you guessed it, we had three cases of heat exaustion in two days. Out came the camelbacks, which are now issued to everyone.
[/ QUOTE ]
I've humped 40 miles in one day, wearing a full combat load, carrying a machine gun, in 110 degree weather in 29 Palms. I did that for 4 years. Without a Camelback. It can be done. Drink water - lots of it - and you won't get heat exhaustion.
[ QUOTE ]
These events and others cost him the respect of all the enlisted personel in the unit. We obeyed his orders, but that was about it.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't doubt that, man. I've done the same. I never said that wingers don't work hard, because they do. I've done it. I always give props where props are due!!
[ QUOTE ]
However I never spent hours starching my cammies so that they would stand up by themselves. I didn't spend hours memorizing little facts about the Corps just incase my sargent ever wanted to know my 10th genral order.
[/ QUOTE ]
Those are things that you should have known. Those are the things that make a difference. As far as the cammies? Well....no comment...
[ QUOTE ]
On the other hand I was always aware that if I didn't do my job as a mechanic corectly people could die. I had zero tollerance for people who didn't take thier job seriously.
[/ QUOTE ]
Think that isn't the case in the infantry? Have much experience working with demolitions? How about mortars? Ever fire machine guns rounds 10 feet over the heads of another company from 1000 yards? Ever call for indirect fire, "Danger Close"??
Believe me, I can relate to that from both ends.
[ QUOTE ]
By the way Loyd I'm not fireing back at you, just giving a diferent point of view for others to read.
[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed! It's always good to exchange ideas and philosophies with another Leatherneck!!!
Semper Fi!!
phrog_driver
New Member
mtsu, you sound like you've been on both sides, which I haven't, strictly speaking. My experience with the grunts comes only from working with them on MEU deployments, CAXs, etc. I think a lot of the "don't have time" as far as PT and PME is true. I will state that most wing units can do a better job with those things. There is no excuse for not getting unit PT at least once a week--use that maintenance day! My old squadron started out doing PT every week (baby steps here, okay), but once it turned over to a new CO and MO who thought they were losing work hours on this stuff, it faded away.
However, I will say that wing units are evaluated every single day on making frags, flt hour goals, and AMRRs (aircraft readiness #). Miss one day on any of those, and the group CO is calling the sqdn CO. Very few non-air units have to make a target every single day. It's hard in this environment to allocate a few hours for PT or PME. Also, you have a day and night shift to work with. Does the night crew PT in the dark when they come on, or at 0200 after doing a phase? Not to say it's impossible, but definitely a unique training challenge.
When wing officers and NCOs allocate time between maintenance/flying and general training, they do so knowing that their evaluation of the unit's maintence and flying is daily, but as far as general training, they only have to pass an IG every other year.
I agree with mtsu to some extent, but I definitely think one has to make allowances for different types of units. Like mtsu said earlier, grunts work hard after coming back from the field on PT, PME, etc. The thing is, the wing is ALWAYS working at its actual job--fixing aircraft, flying, and so on. There isn't a week in between major evolutions, because the wing has a flt schedule to make EVERY day.
However, I will say that wing units are evaluated every single day on making frags, flt hour goals, and AMRRs (aircraft readiness #). Miss one day on any of those, and the group CO is calling the sqdn CO. Very few non-air units have to make a target every single day. It's hard in this environment to allocate a few hours for PT or PME. Also, you have a day and night shift to work with. Does the night crew PT in the dark when they come on, or at 0200 after doing a phase? Not to say it's impossible, but definitely a unique training challenge.
When wing officers and NCOs allocate time between maintenance/flying and general training, they do so knowing that their evaluation of the unit's maintence and flying is daily, but as far as general training, they only have to pass an IG every other year.
I agree with mtsu to some extent, but I definitely think one has to make allowances for different types of units. Like mtsu said earlier, grunts work hard after coming back from the field on PT, PME, etc. The thing is, the wing is ALWAYS working at its actual job--fixing aircraft, flying, and so on. There isn't a week in between major evolutions, because the wing has a flt schedule to make EVERY day.
H46Bubba
Well-Known Member
I sure as hell don't have any room to speak as far as Infantry goes other than my father's stories of when he as a Corpsman with the Marines. They spent a LOT of time in the field and doing a lot of preperation and PT as well as fieldaying in barracks. I know the ACE guys work their a$$'s off! They're a bunch of good guys. If we ever needed help they would lend a hand as would we if they had any. At the end of the flight schedule, we were always the last to land, due to us being SAR, but we always were finished before they were. While we were down in the shop watching movies they were hard at work up on the flightdeck or down in the hangar bay turning wrenches. A bunch of hard workers, especially when the ops tempo increses.
mtsu_av8er
Well-Known Member
Yeah, the wingers do work hard, but they're just not as squared away. For whatever reason....and I've heard all of them!!
When I was an instructor at the schoolhouse, I stressed to my kids that the airwing SHOULD have all of the bragging rights in the Marine Corps. I made my kids stay squared away, PT, shine their boots and know their Marine Corps knowledge. I also forced them to know the make-up of a MEU, a MEB and a MEF - and know ALL of the elements for each. I forced them to know general orders, cycles of operations of the M-16, M249 and M240. And, of course, they had to know how to fix an engine. They had to understand systems. They had to know more than just their MOS.
Unfortunately, the wingers have dropped the ball. They use that "no time" stuff for an excuse. I acknowledge that there is lot's of work to be done. I also respect the airwingers as fine technicians. However, I know lots of Marines with ground-bound MOSs that managed to stay squared away with just as many maintenance duties. I know Tank and LAV mechs that bust their butts just as hard as any wing mech, and they stay squared away. I know MPs that work 10 and 12 hours shifts - with no time for PT!!! They still have unit PT!!! Suck it up and do it!!
Oh yes, it can be done. I've seen it.
this is cool...almost like being in again, without the pissed-off Gunny coming in and telling me to shut up becvause his feeling are hurt...
When I was an instructor at the schoolhouse, I stressed to my kids that the airwing SHOULD have all of the bragging rights in the Marine Corps. I made my kids stay squared away, PT, shine their boots and know their Marine Corps knowledge. I also forced them to know the make-up of a MEU, a MEB and a MEF - and know ALL of the elements for each. I forced them to know general orders, cycles of operations of the M-16, M249 and M240. And, of course, they had to know how to fix an engine. They had to understand systems. They had to know more than just their MOS.
Unfortunately, the wingers have dropped the ball. They use that "no time" stuff for an excuse. I acknowledge that there is lot's of work to be done. I also respect the airwingers as fine technicians. However, I know lots of Marines with ground-bound MOSs that managed to stay squared away with just as many maintenance duties. I know Tank and LAV mechs that bust their butts just as hard as any wing mech, and they stay squared away. I know MPs that work 10 and 12 hours shifts - with no time for PT!!! They still have unit PT!!! Suck it up and do it!!
Oh yes, it can be done. I've seen it.
this is cool...almost like being in again, without the pissed-off Gunny coming in and telling me to shut up becvause his feeling are hurt...
mtsu_av8er
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Lloyd, you know I'm just starting thees threads in order to get you mentally prepped for going back in......to the JC military!
[/ QUOTE ]
I broke the weapons out yesterday, lots of CLP and started getting back into the DIS&ASS drills. I then went out in the yard and practiced a little COD (mt cadences are still pretty good, although the neighbors think I'm nuts...
).
Another month or so and we'll be ready for boot camp to kick off!!!
Lloyd, you know I'm just starting thees threads in order to get you mentally prepped for going back in......to the JC military!
[/ QUOTE ]
I broke the weapons out yesterday, lots of CLP and started getting back into the DIS&ASS drills. I then went out in the yard and practiced a little COD (mt cadences are still pretty good, although the neighbors think I'm nuts...
Another month or so and we'll be ready for boot camp to kick off!!!
USMCmech
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
When summer came around and the flight line was about 140 degrees, the gunny saw all of us working with our coveralls around our waist, and wearing "Camelbacks" that we bought with our own money. He did it again, no non regualtion clothing at all. Well, you guessed it, we had three cases of heat exaustion in two days. Out came the camelbacks, which are now issued to everyone.
[/ QUOTE ]
I've humped 40 miles in one day, wearing a full combat load, carrying a machine gun, in 110 degree weather in 29 Palms. I did that for 4 years. Without a Camelback. It can be done. Drink water - lots of it - and you won't get heat exhaustion.[ QUOTE ]
No canteens allowed on the flightline due to FOD/tool control programs.
The water in our hanger wasn't fit for human consumption due to lead pipes from the 1920s. All our water was from water coolers that had to be replenished constantly durring the summer.
We measured the temp of the asphalt on the flight line one day and it was 160 F. The air temp at chest height was 140 F. Humidity was 90% or better.
Call me a wuss, but I hate to think about working in the heat before people had a good understanding of how the body cools itself. Today everyone understands that large amounts of water and breaks in the shade are required in order to get the best performance from people.
The best story I heard about how to get through the heat of the day was from africa in WW2. At a fighter base in Lybia a B-24 landed with some sort of mechanical problem. The crew was picked up, and they said that someone would come for the aircraft. After 4 weeks, and no sign of it's owners the local maintence crew fixed it with local parts and a couple of pilots started flying it as a transport.
They had beer that they would get from the British, but no way to keep it cold. One day one of the pilots was complaning about how cold it was up at altitude to his maintence crew who were bakeing in the hot Sahara winds.
One of them had the bright idea, if the pilot gets so cold I'll bet the beer will get cold too!
The next day, they loaded up the bomb bays with as much beer as it could lift and enough fuel for 4-5 hours. Take of at noon, fly around in circles at 20,000 ft and land at 5 for happy hour!
This became a daily ritual, and they had the only cold beer in north africa. All was well until one day a General shows up in the afternoon to inspect the base. The grond crew radios up to the beer plane to stay up there until he leaves. After a while everyone starts to get nervous because the beer plane is running low on fuel, and the general shows no sign of leaving.
As the base comander thinks about how he is going to expliane useing a "misapropriated" aircraft to haul beer around the General leans over and says, someone tell that beer plane to get down here, I'm getting thirsty!
When summer came around and the flight line was about 140 degrees, the gunny saw all of us working with our coveralls around our waist, and wearing "Camelbacks" that we bought with our own money. He did it again, no non regualtion clothing at all. Well, you guessed it, we had three cases of heat exaustion in two days. Out came the camelbacks, which are now issued to everyone.
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I've humped 40 miles in one day, wearing a full combat load, carrying a machine gun, in 110 degree weather in 29 Palms. I did that for 4 years. Without a Camelback. It can be done. Drink water - lots of it - and you won't get heat exhaustion.[ QUOTE ]
No canteens allowed on the flightline due to FOD/tool control programs.
The water in our hanger wasn't fit for human consumption due to lead pipes from the 1920s. All our water was from water coolers that had to be replenished constantly durring the summer.
We measured the temp of the asphalt on the flight line one day and it was 160 F. The air temp at chest height was 140 F. Humidity was 90% or better.
Call me a wuss, but I hate to think about working in the heat before people had a good understanding of how the body cools itself. Today everyone understands that large amounts of water and breaks in the shade are required in order to get the best performance from people.
The best story I heard about how to get through the heat of the day was from africa in WW2. At a fighter base in Lybia a B-24 landed with some sort of mechanical problem. The crew was picked up, and they said that someone would come for the aircraft. After 4 weeks, and no sign of it's owners the local maintence crew fixed it with local parts and a couple of pilots started flying it as a transport.
They had beer that they would get from the British, but no way to keep it cold. One day one of the pilots was complaning about how cold it was up at altitude to his maintence crew who were bakeing in the hot Sahara winds.
One of them had the bright idea, if the pilot gets so cold I'll bet the beer will get cold too!
The next day, they loaded up the bomb bays with as much beer as it could lift and enough fuel for 4-5 hours. Take of at noon, fly around in circles at 20,000 ft and land at 5 for happy hour!
This became a daily ritual, and they had the only cold beer in north africa. All was well until one day a General shows up in the afternoon to inspect the base. The grond crew radios up to the beer plane to stay up there until he leaves. After a while everyone starts to get nervous because the beer plane is running low on fuel, and the general shows no sign of leaving.
As the base comander thinks about how he is going to expliane useing a "misapropriated" aircraft to haul beer around the General leans over and says, someone tell that beer plane to get down here, I'm getting thirsty!
mtsu_av8er
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
No canteens allowed on the flightline due to FOD/tool control programs.
[/ QUOTE ]
nobody can carry a water bottle onto the flight line? Come on, which FOD/Tool control program doesn't allow a water bottle? I was a mech, too.....I've never seen that order.
And there's no need to call you a wuss...you're an air winger, right??
No canteens allowed on the flightline due to FOD/tool control programs.
[/ QUOTE ]
nobody can carry a water bottle onto the flight line? Come on, which FOD/Tool control program doesn't allow a water bottle? I was a mech, too.....I've never seen that order.
And there's no need to call you a wuss...you're an air winger, right??
mtsu_av8er
Well-Known Member
BTW - you know I'm teasing, right??
USMCmech
Well-Known Member
That's what the Maint Officer passed down after some one lost a canteen cap down in the bottom of the flight control closet and didn't tell anybody. Camelbacks were approved because they are all one peice, but they had to be labeled with the owners name and shop. A week later the Squadron Gunny said that wearing "those civilian backpacks" was forbiden.
I thought it was crazy at the time, but what can a Lance Corpral say except Aye Aye Sir!
I thought it was crazy at the time, but what can a Lance Corpral say except Aye Aye Sir!
mtsu_av8er
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I thought it was crazy at the time, but what can a Lance Corpral say except Aye Aye Sir!
[/ QUOTE ]
Run to medical and raise hell. Request mast and let them commanding officer (at the Wing level, if neccesary) know that you're not allowed to drink water on the hot-a$$ flight line. I guarantee it'll get fixed.
I've requested mast over quite a few things. 3 times, to be exact. Refused non-judicial punishment and requested trial by court martial once (and won...
). Oh, the power of a Lance Corporal.... As long as you're right!!
I thought it was crazy at the time, but what can a Lance Corpral say except Aye Aye Sir!
[/ QUOTE ]
Run to medical and raise hell. Request mast and let them commanding officer (at the Wing level, if neccesary) know that you're not allowed to drink water on the hot-a$$ flight line. I guarantee it'll get fixed.
I've requested mast over quite a few things. 3 times, to be exact. Refused non-judicial punishment and requested trial by court martial once (and won...