Question for the AF types
- Thread starter ///AMG
- Start date
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
It's been changing lately, and it differs between the CONUS, the Pacific, and Europe, but in the training command it currently works like this:
Inexperienced pilot: 300/1
Experienced or IP: Published mins
Used to be that there were multiple categories:
Cat A: 300/1
Cat B: 500/1.5
Cat C: 700/2
Cat D: 1500/3
Inexperienced pilot: 300/1
Experienced or IP: Published mins
Used to be that there were multiple categories:
Cat A: 300/1
Cat B: 500/1.5
Cat C: 700/2
Cat D: 1500/3
///AMG
Well-Known Member
I see, yeah he was a pretty senior guy so he probably was referencing the old system. So does that rule apply outside of the tracom? It makes sense for multicrew aircraft, but it seems like it would potentially be impractical in a single seat aircraft where you can't swap pilots. Not that 300/1 isn't pretty low as it is, but 1500/3....thats above basic VFR.
And even here, different MAJCOMs termed it differently. Cat A/B/C/D in ACC was Cat 1/2/3/4 in PACAF, at least a decade ago.
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
It all had to do with experience. Here's how it broke down in Air Combat Command for fighters and trainers until a year or two ago:
The 1500/3 category was for a non-qualified pilot; a.k.a. solo student.
The 700/2 category was for pilots who had passed their initial Form 8 checkride (instrument qualification) but were not Mission Qualified in the jet; a.k.a. student still in the FTU (the 'RAG' for you Navy types) after his first checkride all they way until he was mission qualified in his operational squadron.
500/1.5 was for mission qualified pilots in operational units who were not yet 'experienced' (500 hours in type).
300/1 was for everyone else.
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
Isn't that just typical Big Blue idiocy? People doing the exact same thing in different locations can't just do it the same way. For all the ways the AF foot-stomps standardization...people just gotta be different.
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
What we're talking about here is the minimum weather requirements for AF pilots to execute instrument approaches. It's a self-imposed system that ostensibly is designed to keep pilots of lesser experience from getting into situations where transitioning from instrument approach to landing is difficult.
As a civilian, you can impose whatever personal restrictions on yourself that you want....but I'm not sure that's really your question. ?
///AMG
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the explanation. So is 300/1 the absolute minimum for all AF aircrew then?
@ Ahw01 - An FAA issued instrument rating will give you lower minimums than even the most experienced category that was listed. I'd say having higher mins for yourself based upon your personal experience and limitations is a great idea, military or not. If you don't feel comfortable shooting an ILS to 200-1/2 then err on the side of caution and cut yourself off at something more reasonable. Not saying that you shouldn't challenge yourself, but get really good and solid using higher mins and then occasionally practice going down to harder mins on a sunny day (under the hood of course). In my personal flying, I don't feel the need to go down to 200-1/2 like we train for at work. When it comes down to it, that is pretty bad weather that I wouldn't want to be flying for fun in anyways.
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
Currently, no. Currently the mins (in AETC and USAFE, at least) are "published mins".
At some point in the past, depending on which "Command" you were in, there were places where 300/1 was the lowest weather category.
Yeah, for the longest time Cat B/Cat 2 WX mins were the lowest you could go. There were no Cat A/Cat 1 guys....at least not in the Hog at that time.
MAC has always been more relaxed.....heck even TAC/ACC with crew aircraft......than they ever were with the single-seats. I believe the PWC mins were only for the tactical planes. I don't know if SAC had any such restrictions?
fish314
Well-Known Member
I don't go back quite that far, but all of my KC-135 IPs back when I was a new co-pilot were former SAC guys.
The answer is no, there were never any reduced mins for SAC guys that I know about. Everything in SAC was oriented towards the perspective that the nuclear missiles are inbound, so you could go to the absolute minimums in every sense, and in war time you could go lower than that.
The Pilot Weather Category (PWC) thing has always been driven by the single seat community.
Interestingly, AETC is changing the PWCs for the T-6. For us, it used to be 300-1 off station, and published mins at home station for Cat 1 (experienced IP) and 500 1 1/2 off station and 300-1 at home station for Cat 2 (inexperienced IPs). Now the Cat 1 guys like me are going to published mins everywhere, at Cat 2 guys are down to the old Cat 1 mins.