Question for Airline Guys - ILS PRM Approaches

ROSWELL41

ROSWELL41

New Member
I am a freshman in the flight program at Purdue University. Today in my Instrument Ground class we watched an FAA video on ILS PRM approaches. I had never heard of a PRM approach prior to today. I am curious as to how many times you airline guys have flown such approaches. Are they becoming more common? Have any of you experienced a breakout from ATC? Is much time spend in recurrent training on these?
 
Without going into too much detail, but the ILS PRM procedures are about the single handedly most dangerous thing in instrument conditions. I practiced one in the simulator two years ago, and if you've got to do the 'breakout manuever', good luck.
 
Re: Question for Airline Guys - ASR Approaches

Not sure about the ILS PRM approach, but last week on my IFR long XC I did an ASR approach. Or should I say the approach controller did it.
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My question is how often are ASR approaches used in real life? It was really nice and allowed me to really focus on the flying part. I could see where it would be helpful if it were down to mins.
 
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What's an ILS PRM approach?

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PRM=Precision Runway Monitor

Check out AIM 5-4-12, but basically it allows for simultaneous independant ILS approaches to parallel runways spaced less than 4300' apart.
 
For the PRM, the video said that each ILS has a specialized approach controller monitoring the aircraft for a given runway. Pilots are required to monitor both the tower and the given approach frequency throughout the approach as both the tower and approach controller transmit on both frequencies. This is done to avoid a blocked comm situation. TCAS is supposed to be turn to TA mode during the app. Basically, if an aircraft strays from the localizer and enters the "no transgression zone" he begins to immediately issue a breakout clearance whereby the aircraft are told to turn and climb/descend. I just learned this stuff today and have omitted some things. Please correct any of this info. Any more insights?
 
[ QUOTE ]
PRM=Precision Runway Monitor

Check out AIM 5-4-12, but basically it allows for simultaneous independant ILS approaches to parallel runways spaced less than 4300' apart.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's kind of funny because I just reviewed that part of the AIM a couple of weeks ago. The requirements on the parallel ILS's stuck in my head, but I just thought of it as simultaneous ILS approaches, without the PRM moniker sticking in my little pea-brain...
 
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Basically, if an aircraft strays from the localizer and enters the "no transgression zone" he begins to immediately issue a breakout clearance whereby the aircraft are told to turn and climb/descend

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Funny thing is that the aircraft which is doing things correctly is the one who gets broken off from the approach to avoid the aircraft that has transgressed.

A told to "climb" breakout maneuver is really no different than a regular go-around and procedures are the same. A "descending" break out maneuver is the one that gives me the ibby jibby's. You descend while turning off course, level, accelerate and clean up at a relatively low altitude.

Never done one in real life but practiced in the sim. Not many airports are currently doing PRM approaches. The two that come to mind are KMSP and KPHL.
 
MSP and PHL are currently running PRM appproaches. Last time I went in to PHL they were landing east so I didn't get to try it out. They used to have the system at RDU but it was before I was flying there. I read somewhere that PRM's next stop is going to be JFK (for use on the 4/22s).

Also saw something recently that anti-blocking technology (wouldn't that be nice if it worked!) might soon eliminate the dual-comm requirement.
 
We (ATA) are approved for ILS PRM approaches at KMSP and KPHL, but I have never done one for real, just in the sim. I agree with all who don't like the breakout maneuver, what a goatrope!!!

As for PAR approaches, I did one as pilot flying in an L-1011 into Whidby Island NAS in marginal VFR, one as pilot flying in an L-1011 into Norfolk NAS in some pretty low IFR, and one as pilot not flying in an L-1011 into "Al's Garage". That one was VFR but a DARK DARK DARK night. If you have ever been you know what I am talking about.
 
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At Al's house?

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that was my first thought...but something tells me im wrong...
 
We did an ASR approach into Moline (I think). It was a while ago. No PRM though... we aren't approved, since we don't fly to airports that have PRM approaches (except MSP, but that is an alternate not often used).
 
[ QUOTE ]
For the PRM, the video said that each ILS has a specialized approach controller monitoring the aircraft for a given runway. Pilots are required to monitor both the tower and the given approach frequency throughout the approach as both the tower and approach controller transmit on both frequencies. This is done to avoid a blocked comm situation. TCAS is supposed to be turn to TA mode during the app. Basically, if an aircraft strays from the localizer and enters the "no transgression zone" he begins to immediately issue a breakout clearance whereby the aircraft are told to turn and climb/descend. I just learned this stuff today and have omitted some things. Please correct any of this info. Any more insights?

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Sounds good, but our company procedures have told us to leave in TA/RA still. TA was what it used to be, but revised to keep us in TA/RA. Ive been in PHL all month long and havent done one yet, and the minimums for it are rediculously high still. Last month i went to MSP a dozen times and didnt do one. I think they are approved, but are only using them in rare circumstance b/c of items meantioned in above posts.
 
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