QoL while commuting and what not...

JDean3204

JDean3204

Well-Known Member
As the majority of us are navigating our way through our careers with families, at times we are faced with hard decisions to make in order to keep solid roots intact. I am lucky to live within an hour of both my girlfriends(pretty much wife) mother and my parents. As we are in our late 20's and have been together since we were 18/19 years old, kids often come up in our discussion. Honestly, the only reason we do not have children yet is because of me, getting out of the service and starting flight school then flying for a peanut paying first career job did not seem like a great time to have a child. I am a few weeks out from training at my first 121 carrier, which will still be peanut paying for the first year or at least until I upgrade. So for the sake of providing a decent life for a little one, I am putting kids on hold yet a few more years.

With that being said, I now live in Portland, Oregon. Our families live an hour south in Salem, Oregon. We have been floating the idea of moving back to Salem to start developing those roots. As long as I am PDX or even SEA based, living in Salem is a non issue, either an hour drive to PDX or a 3 1/2 hour drive to SEA. The cost of living is getting out of control in Portland, the rent is rising at such a fast rate we are about to pay 70% more for the same place we moved into 5 years ago... Salem is much cheaper, a better chance to buy a house without spending 300K on a "fixer upper". As I am constantly thinking years ahead of myself, I know that SEA or PDX is not a universal base such as ORD, LAX or DFW... I just have no desire to move my family to those locations as there will be no support structure for them when I am at work. If it was for a job that I would be home every night, I would consider it. Of course I would really like to fly for AS someday, but as a realist I know that you choose the first "career carrier" that calls. Plus, I would really love to have my kids growing up close to their grandparents, that would mean a lot to them, myself and my parents.

So here are the questions since I just filled you in with all of the boring details...

How much does commuting really effect your QoL?

If you are a commuter, what is the reason for the commute? Your wife/husband and kids?

Have you ever regretted not just moving to base and telling your wife/husband to suck it up?

With seniority and bidding systems, how long until you can bid trips that have at least 4 days between duty periods? Do you even go home if you have 1 or 2 days off between duty periods?

Very long and dry, I know.... But just wondering if there are others out there who sacrifice their time off in order to be with their families.
 
JDean3204 said:
How much does commuting really effect your QoL?
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That's a tough one to answer. I really think it is dependent on the individual situation. Some pilots and their families can rock a trans continental commute with limited time at home and be perfectly happy. Some try a commute that is much easier and lose their minds.

There are definitely two schools of thought. Some people think that commuting is a choice and you should live in base. Alternatively many believe that if you really love where you live or really hate where you're based, you can come out ahead by commuting.

If I was in your shoes here's probably what I'd do. Stay put while you are junior and on reserve. Reserve is a lot easier to deal wit when you're living at home instead of sitting in a crashpad with a bunch of dudes...at least it was for me. Once you're senior enough to have a set schedule, if you want to try out the commuting thing, give it a shot. Don't look at it as a permanent move, but maybe give yourself a timetable if you can to see how it fits you guys.

Absolutely key in this whole thing is communication with your girlfriend. Commuting absolutely will eat into your available time at home. Time apart is difficult, but it has been my experience that it tends to go by quicker for the person on the road because you're going to be kept extremely busy. Have an honest talk with her frequently to see how she's doing so that if she ends up not liking it, it's not a surprise out of left field.

JDean3204 said:
If you are a commuter, what is the reason for the commute? Your wife/husband and kids?
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I'm a commuter because none of my airline's bases really do anything for me. My wife and I aren't really tied to any one location, but we do like where we are. Driving to work was nice when I was at my old job, but bases close all the time. We ended up buying where we did so knowing that it wouldn't last forever and that I can commute pretty much anywhere I need to go out of IAD. That ended up being the case and because of our pre-planning, commuting to DTW then ANC/LAX hasn't really created any big changes in our life.

JDean3204 said:
Have you ever regretted not just moving to base and telling your wife/husband to suck it up?
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Commuting has its good days and bad days. Occasionally you get a first class upgrade and sneak in a great nap on the way to work. On the contrary I've spent an entire day trying to get home. There will certainly be days where you second guess your decision. Key to survival is looking at things objectively and just letting go of what you cannot control. It really is up to the individual though. Some families bounce around the country every time there is a change, some are happier putting down roots. Personally I grew up bouncing around the world as a military brat so as far as kids are concerned, there are benefits to both. You just have to try it out for a while and figure out what works best for your specific situation.

JDean3204 said:
With seniority and bidding systems, how long until you can bid trips that have at least 4 days between duty periods? Do you even go home if you have 1 or 2 days off between duty periods?
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The first question is hard to say and entirely dependent on movement/growth at your airline. At this airline I've been lucky and despite being a year in, I'm already at the 75% mark of the pilot group and can hold decent schedules. But back when I was at ASA/Expressjet there were some guys who were stuck on reserve for 5+ years. It really depends on a lot of factors that are outside of your control.

The second part, yes. I'd go home every chance I could. It might be just a quick visit to change out the dirty laundry, kiss the wife, and then go back out. It's good for both of you guys to see each other and it makes the trips seem a lot shorter. Key to pulling this off however is a solid commuter clause. Go home for a day at a place without one and you might have some explaining to do. But if you can point to the contract and prove you complied with the established rules, a commute for any length becomes a lot less stressful.

Some unsolicited relationship advice when it comes to airline stuff...communication is always key. Talk often and keep each other appraised on what is going on in each of your lives. That helps keep it from feeling like your relationship is on hold while you're apart.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
That's a tough one to answer. I really think it is dependent on the individual situation. Some pilots and their families can rock a trans continental commute with limited time at home and be perfectly happy. Some try a commute that is much easier and lose their minds.

There are definitely two schools of thought. Some people think that commuting is a choice and you should live in base. Alternatively many believe that if you really love where you live or really hate where you're based, you can come out ahead by commuting.

If I was in your shoes here's probably what I'd do. Stay put while you are junior and on reserve. Reserve is a lot easier to deal wit when you're living at home instead of sitting in a crashpad with a bunch of dudes...at least it was for me. Once you're senior enough to have a set schedule, if you want to try out the commuting thing, give it a shot. Don't look at it as a permanent move, but maybe give yourself a timetable if you can to see how it fits you guys.

Absolutely key in this whole thing is communication with your girlfriend. Commuting absolutely will eat into your available time at home. Time apart is difficult, but it has been my experience that it tends to go by quicker for the person on the road because you're going to be kept extremely busy. Have an honest talk with her frequently to see how she's doing so that if she ends up not liking it, it's not a surprise out of left field.



I'm a commuter because none of my airline's bases really do anything for me. My wife and I aren't really tied to any one location, but we do like where we are. Driving to work was nice when I was at my old job, but bases close all the time. We ended up buying where we did so knowing that it wouldn't last forever and that I can commute pretty much anywhere I need to go out of IAD. That ended up being the case and because of our pre-planning, commuting to DTW then ANC/LAX hasn't really created any big changes in our life.



Commuting has its good days and bad days. Occasionally you get a first class upgrade and sneak in a great nap on the way to work. On the contrary I've spent an entire day trying to get home. There will certainly be days where you second guess your decision. Key to survival is looking at things objectively and just letting go of what you cannot control. It really is up to the individual though. Some families bounce around the country every time there is a change, some are happier putting down roots. Personally I grew up bouncing around the world as a military brat so as far as kids are concerned, there are benefits to both. You just have to try it out for a while and figure out what works best for your specific situation.



The first question is hard to say and entirely dependent on movement/growth at your airline. At this airline I've been lucky and despite being a year in, I'm already at the 75% mark of the pilot group and can hold decent schedules. But back when I was at ASA/Expressjet there were some guys who were stuck on reserve for 5+ years. It really depends on a lot of factors that are outside of your control.

The second part, yes. I'd go home every chance I could. It might be just a quick visit to change out the dirty laundry, kiss the wife, and then go back out. It's good for both of you guys to see each other and it makes the trips seem a lot shorter. Key to pulling this off however is a solid commuter clause. Go home for a day at a place without one and you might have some explaining to do. But if you can point to the contract and prove you complied with the established rules, a commute for any length becomes a lot less stressful.

Some unsolicited relationship advice when it comes to airline stuff...communication is always key. Talk often and keep each other appraised on what is going on in each of your lives. That helps keep it from feeling like your relationship is on hold while you're apart.
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That my friend is why I like to post these questions on JC, solid advice...Thank you
 
JDean3204 said:
With seniority and bidding systems, how long until you can bid trips that have at least 4 days between duty periods? Do you even go home if you have 1 or 2 days off between duty periods?
Click to expand...
Not a whole lot to add that's super relevant, but I will say that as a junior lineholder in ORD (which lasted an entire month) I was able to bid for max days off and got 17, while in PDX the most I've been able to snag is 13, so pretty much the bare minimum, with mostly either 2 days off between trips or 3 days that back up (wouldn't be horrible if I lived in base). I am on occasion able to get big groups of days off together, but that generally only happens once, then I'm slammed the rest of the month. So really I think it kind of depends on what the trips/lines in that base are built like.

I will say too, even having to drive a little bit is a hell of a lot better than an awful commute. Due to...reasons, I'm commuting out to PDX from the midwest and it's pretty miserable. 2 legs at best unless I can hop on the big brown bus which doesn't run daily. Funny when I fly with CAs that complain about the two hour drive head of them at the end of a trip. :P
 
JordanD said:
Not a whole lot to add that's super relevant, but I will say that as a junior lineholder in ORD (which lasted an entire month) I was able to bid for max days off and got 17, while in PDX the most I've been able to snag is 13, so pretty much the bare minimum, with mostly either 2 days off between trips or 3 days that back up (wouldn't be horrible if I lived in base). I am on occasion able to get big groups of days off together, but that generally only happens once, then I'm slammed the rest of the month. So really I think it kind of depends on what the trips/lines in that base are built like.

I will say too, even having to drive a little bit is a hell of a lot better than an awful commute. Due to...reasons, I'm commuting out to PDX from the midwest and it's pretty miserable. 2 legs at best unless I can hop on the big brown bus which doesn't run daily. Funny when I fly with CAs that complain about the two hour drive head of them at the end of a trip. :p
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Yeah PDX would be an easy situation if I live in Salem. Just an hour drive north on the I-5 to get to work. Heck I could even stay at home in Salem while on reserve in PDX and just keep an eye on the traffic and find alternate routes to get there within two hours if backed up. Even SEA based I would just hang out up in Vancouver(WA) while on reserve. Now if I get ORD, DEN, LAX or SFO... Then I have now tacked over an hour drive onto a commute, that is what is I'm not so sure of...
 
It really depends on your career expectations and reasons why you're commuting.

Commute because you love where you live and you have an opportunity at the company you work for that makes it beneficial to do such.

I commuted PHX to NYC for a number of years to fly international and it was amazing. I'd fly to NYC once or twice a month, saw the world, came back home to sunny Arizona and I was done for a number of weeks. Domestic, I couldn't get out of NYC fast enough because it absolutely BLEW on the domestic side.

If you're on hour two of four and the only reason you're doing it is for external reasons like the wife's got a fun job at Bed, Bath & Beyond and can't leave her social circle in Nacogdoches, TX, it will eat your soul.

People commute for different reasons and it's not a walk in the park at all. I heavily suggest making sure they're the right reasons! ;)
 
Commuting... I could go on all day about this. I've commuted on and off my entire career. And I left a good airline where I was based at home to go to a legacy carrier where I could never be. To me, commuting is one of those "it is what it is" things. Everyone is different, if you do it and you hate it, it's not for you. I personally don't mind. The place I want to live is 2.5 hours drive from a major airport. All my family and friends are there and it has everything I want out of a place to live. I've found that when I moved to a base I spent my days off wishing I was back there. BUT, again everyone is different. You need to decide what's important to you and whether commuting bothers you or not. I would say without hesitation that a driving commute is no big deal. But it sounds like you're at Horizon so long-term you'll be looking at somewhere that may not have a PDX or SEA base. While it's certainly of value to look at airline hubs, I wouldn't put too much weight on bases when you're deciding where to go. Delta used to have a big DFW hub, NW had one in MEM, United in SEA, many airlines used to have BOS and let that go. The point is, this stuff changes, especially over a 30 year career. For me, it's easiest to just live where I want to and make it work. And honestly, it doesn't hurt my QOL much at all. Sure, I waste a little time commuting but it's my choice and I don't mind it. I am home more and make more money than anyone I know in my hometown so if you compare it with non-aviation careers, it's often a pretty great deal. Not to mention that I commute to a hub that has international flights worldwide. The closest city to my hometown has some but will never have the variety of my base hub. Food for thought.
 
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Feel you man. I started flight school fresh out of the service and also work 60-70 hours a week because I got married and had 3 kids while I was in.. I didn't want to put my dreams on hold any longer but also couldn't afford to just get a part time or "easier" job, so the majority of my time is spend flying, in class or at work - on top of all that the airport I'm at is 1.5 hours from my house and I'm up there at least 3 times a week, and I live 45 minutes from work. It's not easy but having a wife that is supportive is EVERYTHING so I would make sure you keep the ole lady happy when you are actually home! Good luck man.


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Just throwing in my two cents. to me, the commute itself hasn't been that big of a deal, rather, it's what you end up doing with your time off. With summer travel, friend trips, and volunteering, my wife and I sometimes don't see each other for more than 12 hours at a time (most of that sleeping) for weeks. Its causing issues now.

Sometimes doing what's best for your family isn't necessarily to live in base, it's choosing to forgo social activities in order to spend more time at home. I'm slowly learning that the hard way.
 
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Kids change it all. As cliched' as that is, it's true. When my twins came, I was at an on-demand 135. I wasn't making that much and when they gave me a hassle over possibly filing FMLA (place was nuts) I really considered throwing it all away. My career hadn't gone as I wanted to, no one was hiring and pay was so awful that it wasn't worth it financially. I was home and 15 minutes from my airport, but I had no schedule or scheduled days off. My boys suddenly became much,much more important than a career I had wanted since I was a child.

Five going on six years later, I'm a Captain at a regional commuting to base. I miss my boys, but they understand. Does that help me with being away? Nope, not really. But at the same time, I'm making acceptable money now, so we can put money away for us and them. I really wish I could be home more, especially when they're sick or they hurt themselves. Getting the picture last week of my one son with stitches in his lip after a big fall didn't help.

But, one of the great things about the airlines and being a pilot is that work mostly stays at work. Only around recurrent time do I take any work home or have any obligation to the company. Home time is home time. When it's summer and my wife isn't teaching and the boys are out of school, it's pretty cool.

Commuting is never easy. I can drive to my base, but it's five hours one way, so only as a last resort. Flights fill up or cancel, the former more than the latter. But with the holidays, it gets crazy. My commuter to base is only served by regional aircraft too. Guys who commute on mainline metal to larger cities have a better chance, but also more competition for seats, jumpseat and otherwise.

I will always be a commuter. I'm making my peace with it. My wife of 13 years has always supported me(financially and mentally) in this crazy career. I'm very lucky to have her. There is no right decision, just the one that works for you.
 
There are two different types of commuting. The, I'm only doing it until I can hold a base/get hired at a place that is within driving distance from where I live and the I'm going to commute for my entire career here because there are no bases (nor will there likely ever be) that are near where I live. There is a small subcase of the first example where you are commuting because you are stuck living somewhere due to a time specific reason (spouse in school, taking care of elderly parents etc). It is possible to survive a pretty miserable commute for a period of time IF there is a light at the end of the tunnel. What that period of time will depend on you, your spouse/family, your airline's schedules and work rules and how much movement there is. I lasted 4 years doing a two leg transcon commute with 10 days off a month and some of the worst work rules at any of the regionals (back then). After 4 years of trying to get hired somewhere else I gave up and moved to base. I drive 12 minutes to work now and, am seriously considering not looking in neighborhoods for an upcoming move because my drive to work would be about 25 minutes.

The people like @Derg and @Screaming_Emu who will probably always commute to their job are a different sort. It works well for some, but you need to approach it differently than the commute being just a temporary thing. I work with a guy who commutes from (rural) Maine to Honolulu. He doesn't mind it at all. It helps that he's super senior, but for him and his family, it's just part of the job. If you can get that mindset going, a forever commute isn't really a problem.
 
I've seen commuters get plenty worked up about problems with their commute (arriving too late to catch their preferred flight home, finding the cockpit and cabin seats are already taken, getting bumped out of the cockpit by somebody with seniority, etc). I think these guys are heading for an ulcer, or maybe a heart attack.

I've seen other commuters who take a more easy-going approach, too. These guys seem to have embraced the fact that they control almost nothing about their commute except their attitude and knowledge of their options. When they don't get a seat I've seen them thank the gate agent for trying to get them on and then go to their Plan B (or C or D . . .). This seems to be the healthier approach.

If you're a commuter you're going to have to make a conscious choice to be in one group or the other.

One other thought: in these forums I've read plenty of angst about being away from spouses, children, parents, pets, etc. Even when someone lives in base they will be away from home quite a lot. That's the nature of this career. You, your spouse, your kids, and your parents need to reconcile themselves to this fact. And if being away from home a lot just isn't an alternative it's much better to get out now rather than becoming the bitter, resentful person who is angry that the system won't change to accommodate their needs.
 
Even better is when your wife and kids embrace the situation; we do our best to enjoy the times we are solo, make the "homecomings" sweet and spend quality time when we're together, and get together at layover locations when the schedule allows.

Being an airline pilot is an adventure, and if you embrace that its a great lifestyle.
 
Hacker15e said:
Even better is when your wife and kids embrace the situation; we do our best to enjoy the times we are solo, make the "homecomings" sweet and spend quality time when we're together, and get together at layover locations when the schedule allows.

Being an airline pilot is an adventure, and if you embrace that its a great lifestyle.
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Bingo!
 
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