Practicing approaches
- Thread starter pkrgod
- Start date
FlyingNole
New Member
ex. for VFR approaches
On ground/clearence: (this is how I do it)
"Ft. Lauderdale ground, Cessna XXXX at Quebec ramp information XXXX, with request"
(I like waiting for a response before I make my request,etc. At busy airports its more courtesy than anything)
after tower replies "go ahead" ....."Cessna XXXX would like to shoot a few practice approaches VFR, starting off with the ILS XXX"
If you are in the air, its basically the same thing as any first call. Who you are, where you are, and what you'd like to do. Everyone has their own ways of doing it, but hey, thats how I do it
And another thing, you dont need to give your position in relation to a VOR. It can be a landmark, airport, NDB,etc.
On ground/clearence: (this is how I do it)
"Ft. Lauderdale ground, Cessna XXXX at Quebec ramp information XXXX, with request"
(I like waiting for a response before I make my request,etc. At busy airports its more courtesy than anything)
after tower replies "go ahead" ....."Cessna XXXX would like to shoot a few practice approaches VFR, starting off with the ILS XXX"
If you are in the air, its basically the same thing as any first call. Who you are, where you are, and what you'd like to do. Everyone has their own ways of doing it, but hey, thats how I do it
And another thing, you dont need to give your position in relation to a VOR. It can be a landmark, airport, NDB,etc.
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
Yup. Of course, it doesn't have to be in relation to a VOR. It could be in relation to anything that Approach would recognize. But it's just your basic who you are, where you are, and what you want.
ananoman
New Member
Why not just file an IFR flight plan? Just tell the final controller you want multiple approaches. I used to do alot of instrument instruction and I always filed flight plans when ever I was going to do approaches. Some times if ATC is very busy you will only get one approach, but they have to give you at least one.
One other thing to keep in mind is that filing IFR may constrain the controllers too much due to spacing and seperation issues. I have had conversations with some local ATC guys and their take was that they would rather have you VFR (conditions permitting) because they have a lot more flexibility in fitting you into the flow. Unless you want to practice holds and vectors for spacingroundout said:
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MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
Well, if he means FLL, that's a Class C airport and you can probably expect that since Ground or CD gives you VFR departure instructions all the time that they'd bet the ones to tell that you want to do practice approaches.pkrgod said:
But I wouldn't be surprised if there were some Class D airports that will do the same thing. The type of Approach services that a Class D airport will set up for you will vary =a lot= among airports. Some may set you up with Approach for VFR practice approach work. Others won't set you up with Approach for anything.
I know at the class D apt (KFCM) I fly out of it goes like this:
pilot: "Flying Cloud Ground, Cessna 5088Q at Thunderbird with 'information'. We'd like to request an IFR clearance for practice approaches starting with the ils30 at Airlake.
ground: "Cessna 5088Q, FCM ground....Cleared to the FCM airport as filed via radar vectors. Climb, maintain 3000, contact approach on 125.0, squawk 1212.
etc....
pilot: "Flying Cloud Ground, Cessna 5088Q at Thunderbird with 'information'. We'd like to request an IFR clearance for practice approaches starting with the ils30 at Airlake.
ground: "Cessna 5088Q, FCM ground....Cleared to the FCM airport as filed via radar vectors. Climb, maintain 3000, contact approach on 125.0, squawk 1212.
etc....
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
When explaining, it's probably a good idea to keep the procedures for requesting practice approaches on a IFR clearance separate from the procedures for requesting practice approaches under VFR.
Even then theirs's a bit of variety. Jep, there are a bunch of places where you'd have to file an IFR flight plan through FSS or DUATS to get that IFR clearance for practice approaches and others where you would do what you describe.
It's sometimes funny to listen to a pilot call ground or clearance delivery and for the shortcut that is "normal" for them, only to get a reply that sounds like, "What? Are you nuts?"
Even then theirs's a bit of variety. Jep, there are a bunch of places where you'd have to file an IFR flight plan through FSS or DUATS to get that IFR clearance for practice approaches and others where you would do what you describe.
It's sometimes funny to listen to a pilot call ground or clearance delivery and for the shortcut that is "normal" for them, only to get a reply that sounds like, "What? Are you nuts?"
MidlifeFlyer said:
???????? Okay, but I was only responding to his first post:
I made the assumption that it was an IFR clearance. But reading it now, I suppose if he was on an IFR clearance there would be no need to radio approach. Anyhow, there are times when it has been busy when handed off to approach they will ask again if we want an IFR vs. VFR squawk. With the VFR then can usually fit you in better. They'll give you an IFR if you want it, but if they are busy you may get a longer vector than expected.
I am anxious to see what happens come Feb. when the MSP class B airspace changes come into effect. The new 7/35 rw is open now, but the airpace will soon change. Big changes for all of the airports around. The Class B area is is getting wider and the floor is dropping as well.
FlyingNole
New Member
JEP said:
And Leon is getting laaarrrgerrr
NJA_Capt
Well-Known Member
Let me once again offer "the view from the other side." (Hey.....that could be a new forumananoman said:
)Filing IFR for "practice" approaches is very disruptive for "actual" IFR aircraft and sometimes for controllers. If you do the approaches while under VFR, you get the same radio service from ATC and they can reduce the separation distances between VFR/IFR traffic. If you file IFR (VMC conditions) he must use more airspace to keep everyone separated.
If there is traffic on an IFR flight plan (like me) and you are "practicing" approaches on an IFR flight plan (VMC conditions), I cannot begin an approach until you cancel on the ground or go missed and check in. This can be a long wait in areas of poor radar/radio coverage, or if you land and get distracted critiquing and forget to close the flight plan. Sure, I can cancel early and come in anyway. However, by company policy I have to be within a certain distance to do so.
I used to file IFR occasionally too when I was instructing. When I would hear "real" inbound traffic, I would just cancel.
It also goes the other way. You (trainer) and I (jet) both are on IFR flight plans and I hold at the marker while you shoot the approach. When/if you go missed, the controller is going to give you much wider vectors to keep us separated. Or maybe I'll just cancel and enter downwind from the crosswind
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
Just what you thought in your first post. If you are in the air, call the facility that handles approaches (Approach in some areas, Center in others) and, like everything else when dealing with ATC, tell them who you are, where, you are, and what you want.pkrgod said:
"Bigtown Approach. Cessna 1234X. Three east of Podunk. Request practice approaches into Bigtown."
(subject of course to the usual procedures about how much you say on the first call)
If they're not too busy to handle you, they'll give you a squawk and ask which approaches you want to do.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Here's my take (for what it's worth): depends on what you're doing an where your student is. Most of the time it's "Regional Approach, Seminole 21113 with request" and get the VFR clearance. If it's IMC, we have to file. If the student is getting up on their checkride, I might have them file anyway to get the practice of filing the flight plan. If it gets congested or I think the controllers are getting bogged down, I'll cancel the IFR and go with VFR approaches.