Pointless Forum?

[foztofly]

I hate to say this, but I actually agree with luv2av8 in a way here. I think his (MikeD) generalization that "none" of the people here are deserving of carrying pax is a bit over-dramatic. That "none" would include posters such as UPS and Doug. Well, maybe not UPS since he is cargo, but is still an experienced pilot. Granted, frustration may have set in a bit, as it did with me the other night in a response, but that is no justification for including everyone on this forum, no matter if you fly a stealth fighter or not.

Once again, I will ask about a 3-strike rule if you want to implement more "control". NOt to point fingers or show how a certain self-appointed "cease and desist" order has not been complied with, but again look at the last post prior to shutting down the threads. If you wanna block one pro for every con, then by all means I will volunteer too as a pro as others have. If we can remember that the point here is to help in the education of potential aviators, it should remain somewhat civil. If certain people can't keep that agenda on the forefront, whether pro or con, then block them. Myself, Wannabe, FO Shizzle, Planediveguy, MNixon included so you don't think I am trying to be biased.

Doug, as a supporter I somewhat agree with your comment that you would have been turned away a long time ago, except that it would have just turned me away from reading about DCA here, not researching DCA as a quality provider of flight training. You don't agree with the marketing of DCA (which I am not condemning or praising you for) but in all honesty do you think the company you work for has not approved of the ads since their name is in bold letters on it? I personally don't know the answer, but my guess would be that they have seen them and given the thumbs up. Considering your management was here to help unveil the new paint scheme when the name changed (without local or national media attention), I would guess they are involved. There are enough "ambulance chasers" out there, that I am sure the counsel involved is extremely careful how to word and present information on the school. If I were DCA marketing, you would be right in assuming that I would ask that airline if it is ok to use their name the way I do in the ads. Does this make the way you interpret the marketing wrong?? Not necessarally(sp?). Does this make the way I interpret the marketing right? Not necess.. As one said, it is all about perception. When people start accusing the school of blatant lies and gross misreprensentations of the truth, then yes I am going to come to the school's defense. Are we the only route to a Delta regional carrier, not at all and nor do the ads claim to be. Making all the difference? For some, yeh, others no. If I had stayed at the part 141 FBO I was at, my guess is that it would have taken me over 1500 TT to get to a secondary regional since that is the minimum that their instructors are leaving with now. Add in another 1000 or so to qualify for a primary regional interview (see FO Shizzle's ad about the others he was interviewing with) and I think DCA is making all the difference for me. I know I keep a positive spin on the school and it's marketing, but I am not telling prospects how to interpret the ads. What comes to mind is how Wannabe pointed out awhile ago how several ads in Flying other than DCA were self-promoting and claiming to be "the best" and the topic was dropped until forgotten about. Then our ads were once again blasted for trying to incite interest in the school, which in my mind is what ads are intended for, not to sell the end product. Ok ok.. enough already. Just had to ramble a bit since I couldn't sleep.

 

[foztofly]

[ QUOTE ]
"Anymore comments? Anyone?"

Personally, I've think some of the exchanges between FatBastsard and some of the DCA guys have crossed MY line of internet decorum. If I was a MOD, a good deal of the exchanges between FatBastard and the rest would have disappeared as soon as I read them. In my view, the MOD's at jetcareers are way too loose with what's allowed. No disrespect to the fine folks that run this site...but that's what I think.

FatBastard, an unusually high number, no, I'll say an unprecedently high number of your posts cross the line and the MOD's should have made them go away.

And you can keep your naked baby humor to yourself...

[/ QUOTE ]

Without pointing fingers, UPS I couldn't agree more with your post. Uh ohh.. watch out, hell might be freezing over... lol

 

[MikeD]

[ QUOTE ]
but I take great offense to your statement regarding any of our abilities to take responsibility for passengers. I dont know what kind of "unit" you operate, but if you operate with anything remotely close to aviation, you'd know that emotions are left at the preflight. This is a friggin internet forum! Not our life! So please be weary of your implications or flat out insults to our abilities.

pardon the spelling, wouldnt want another hoo haa to quote my mistakes and put it on a crucifix for all to see.

[/ QUOTE ]

Take all the offense you want, but I call them as they are. If "statement and rebuttal" were all you guys were doing here on the forum, that'd be one thing. But repeated personal attacks, even when warned to knock those off, is far from simple statement and rebuttal. My approach to the problem was a "shotgun blast" warning to all, specifically to those involved. If you think it applies to you, then take it to heart. If you weren't one of the culprits, then you have nothing to worry about. And judging professionalism? Why don't we start with arguing without personal attacks, and following a simple set of ROE (rules). How about that? And me remotely close to aviation? I'd say I've got about, conservatively-speaking, 12 years and 5000 hours on any of the people here. So don't talk to me about brief/debrief and preflight ROE, I've been there in spades. This may be a "friggin internet forum", but there are rules to follow, and if people are incapable of following such simple rules over and over or simple lack the attention to detail, then I have to question if they can follow same said rules anywhere else; so I did. Greatly offended are you? Well.......all I can say is that if your actions reflect what I've been talking about here, then there's not much I can do about that. Grow a thicker hyde. If your personal actions here don't reflect what I've described, then you have nothing to worry about.

And I'm not taking any sides here. For the record, I couldn't give a tinkers-damn about DCA, ATP, Skymates, FBOs or anywhere else. None of these places have anything that I remotely need from them, so it's not as if I'm taking any sides with the pro or anti DCA crowd. Both sides are failing to follow simple rules about no personal attacks, and both sides are lacking professionalism with not being able to argue the issues only. The last straw was Fat Bastard blatently breaking the rule with a "retaliatory" personal attack, then attempting to defend said personal attack with a "caveat" in the next paragraph. He's not the only one, like I say, some people from both sides are responsible, not all. So again, if my description applies to you, then take it to heart, if it legitimately doesn't, then you have nothing to worry about.

For the record, I tend to side with UPS that we (the mods) have been a little lax in this forum, so far as enforcing the rules. Combing through this place, there's far more chaff than wheat in the threads. And that's pretty sad. I can understand getting caught up in an argument here and there, and a remark is thrown out....that happens, and I agreed with one of the posters here via PM that that's understandable every now and then. Why this part of the forum is so much more of a babysitting adventure with a few of the crowd, as compared to the other school forums here is still a mystery to me. If you guys (the guilty ones on both sides) want to make yourselves look bad, that's your perogative. I personally would strive for not doing that. But that's just me.

End of story.

 

[derg]

Moderation is a delicate balance.

If you over-moderate, which no one really has time for, the forum becomes Disneyed. People start posting at-will under the guise that if it isn't acceptible, one of the babysitters will scold and erase.

if you under-moderate, which is normally the case, we end up with micro Falluja's and then one of us has to break out the pimp stick occasionally.

I think a more open but 'big picture' approach to people frequenting the DCA forums would work best -- as it becomes 'self moderating' like most other topics in the forum.

 

[DE727UPS]

Foz, at the risk of being accused of being redundant, or having no life for posting this at 137am, I'm not going to refute your post in which you attempt to defend DCA's marketing and advertising. It's all been said before.

This time, we'll have to simply agree to disagree.

 

[Mike Lewis]

Well, normally what I do when moderating, in successive degrees, is:

1) Lock the thread to give a time out.
2) Move it off-line until the mods have had a chance to discuss if it needs to remain.
3) Flush it.

You wouldn't imagine the number of PMs we get that say "Hey, what happened to my post?" And then we get called names and accused of prohibiting free speech.

And when we do take action as has been done in the past, most of the time someone starts up a NEW thread, because the one they were posting the BS in was locked/missing. Uh, if your post/thread disappears, take a moment to think about WHY that might be before posting again...

On professionalism and passengers: I'll just say this: let's imagine you are in the cockpit of your jet, and a passenger previously seen sucking them down at the bar stops by the cockpit and tells you everything you've read in the forums (for example, "DCA sucks and they take all your money!).

Will you hit him? Will you call him a "dateless loser"? Will you start bragging about how much you can bench-press? Will you start talking bad about his father? Will you call him names and taunt him?

Or will you simply blow it off, or try to rationalize with him, maintaining your composure and keeping your professionalism?

Because, you see, the REST of the passengers who have NOT been drinking and who are NOT in your face ARE watching for exactly YOUR reaction, and THAT reaction is going to stick out in our mind FAR MORE than anything some drunken SOB said...

Take it for what it's worth. But I agree with MikeD. And I think THAT was the point he was trying to make.

Another tip from your Uncle Mikey...

 

[FatBastard]

[ QUOTE ]
"Anymore comments? Anyone?"

Personally, I've think some of the exchanges between FatBastsard and some of the DCA guys have crossed MY line of internet decorum. If I was a MOD, a good deal of the exchanges between FatBastard and the rest would have disappeared as soon as I read them. In my view, the MOD's at jetcareers are way too loose with what's allowed. No disrespect to the fine folks that run this site...but that's what I think.

FatBastard, an unusually high number, no, I'll say an unprecedently high number of your posts cross the line and the MOD's should have made them go away.

And you can keep your naked baby humor to yourself...

[/ QUOTE ]

UPS, naked baby humor?

What are you saying?
That was a joke, man that's all. Naked baby humor is GROSS and not something I would engage in.

Has far as my post are concern, I respectfully ask that you consider the personal attacks the pro dca guys made not only against me, but everyone else who tells the truth about what DCA is like. Yes, I did lose my cool, I readily admit that, but for someone to threaten me like that with a blanket party was totally unacceptable! I do however, admire the self control and restraint you show when they attack you, but I'm sure if a fellow crew member told you or hinted that he was going to give you a blanket party, I doubt you would just sit back and take it, somehow UPS I don't envision you letting someone say I'm gonna/will kick your butt, and then you proceed to let them do it. I defended myself and called the individual out. Could I have done it another way, YES. Should I have gotten medieval on them? No. I doubt if Doug, Mike D, Mike Lewis or any mod would allow someone to make a threat like that against them and not expect a defensive response. I, in fact remember when DCA management told new students that Doug was on the outs at Delta for his comments about DCA. Needless to say, Doug was not pleased with that lie!! Doug did handle it professionally and I could, of course take a few pointers from that. Respectfully submitted to you UPS,
The Bastard.

 

[Mike Lewis]

[ QUOTE ]
I doubt if Doug, Mike D, Mike Lewis or any mod would allow someone to make a threat like that against them and not expect a defensive response.

[/ QUOTE ]

See my response to that above...

 

[FatBastard]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, normally what I do when moderating, in successive degrees, is:

1) Lock the thread to give a time out.
2) Move it off-line until the mods have had a chance to discuss if it needs to remain.
3) Flush it.

You wouldn't imagine the number of PMs we get that say "Hey, what happened to my post?" And then we get called names and accused of prohibiting free speech.

And when we do take action as has been done in the past, most of the time someone starts up a NEW thread, because the one they were posting the BS in was locked/missing. Uh, if your post/thread disappears, take a moment to think about WHY that might be before posting again...

On professionalism and passengers: I'll just say this: let's imagine you are in the cockpit of your jet, and a passenger previously seen sucking them down at the bar stops by the cockpit and tells you everything you've read in the forums (for example, "DCA sucks and they take all your money!).

Will you hit him? Will you call him a "dateless loser"? Will you start bragging about how much you can bench-press? Will you start talking bad about his father? Will you call him names and taunt him?

Or will you simply blow it off, or try to rationalize with him, maintaining your composure and keeping your professionalism?

Because, you see, the REST of the passengers who have NOT been drinking and who are NOT in your face ARE watching for exactly YOUR reaction, and THAT reaction is going to stick out in our mind FAR MORE than anything some drunken SOB said...

Take it for what it's worth. But I agree with MikeD. And I think THAT was the point he was trying to make.

Another tip from your Uncle Mikey...

[/ QUOTE ]

Mike, that was a good call, and I like that. I will try my best to keep that in mind next time I receive flame bait directed toward me. Excellent commentary!!