Pinnacle Mesaba Colgan Transition and merger

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pilotlight

Well-Known Member
I guess we should all find out in a couple weeks the outcome of the SLI, after that I guess they are going to start moving the aircraft around and by the end of the year colgans name will be gone and all the jets will be on the pinnacle certificate. The aircraft will be fenced initially so the current crews that are on the aircraft will still be flying those aircraft for awhile with their own books and manuals but then eventually everyone will get the same manuals and charts (ipads) I guess there will be vacancies going forward company wide then after that and people can choose where they want to go as vacancies open up? I dont see that part of the merger happening until mid 2012 though. the route network on the CRJ 900 is going to be pretty extensive though, you could be in SFO one day and STX or CZM the next trip.
Anyways, good luck to everyone with this arbitrators decision, I hope it is fair for everyone and i look forward to working with xj,9l in the future.
 
There's going to be a lot of anxiety over this. Clearly it didn't go smoothly or it wouldn't have come to this. I hope after it is all said and done, we can all just accept it and move on civility. I'm sure we all wil.
 
If this is done right everyone will be equally ticked off... with the exception of whoever is #1 on the list. Time will tell. It's not hard to see why nothing was completed- you have representatives from each group representing what is best for their group. Not much room to compromise with 3 groups involved since in any give/take someone gets a shaft. Bloch has a tough job for sure.
 
Higney, is it confirmed our members will continue to work with 9L/XJ members until the day Bloch issues his award? Or, do we have to be approached by XJ or 9L members and then we decide to meet them? In the meantime until Bloch issues his award, who is meeting whom? Is anything confirmed?
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Higney, is it confirmed our members will continue to work with 9L/XJ members until the day Bloch issues his award? Or, do we have to be approached by XJ or 9L members and then we decide to meet them? In the meantime until Bloch issues his award, who is meeting whom? Is anything confirmed?
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Who cares? just let it happen. No matter how hard we try to analyze this it wont change a thing.
 
pilotlight said:
I guess we should all find out in a couple weeks the outcome of the SLI, after that I guess they are going to start moving the aircraft around and by the end of the year colgans name will be gone and all the jets will be on the pinnacle certificate. The aircraft will be fenced initially so the current crews that are on the aircraft will still be flying those aircraft for awhile with their own books and manuals but then eventually everyone will get the same manuals and charts (ipads) I guess there will be vacancies going forward company wide then after that and people can choose where they want to go as vacancies open up? I dont see that part of the merger happening until mid 2012 though. the route network on the CRJ 900 is going to be pretty extensive though, you could be in SFO one day and STX or CZM the next trip.
Anyways, good luck to everyone with this arbitrators decision, I hope it is fair for everyone and i look forward to working with xj,9l in the future.
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While that "might" happen, per the CBA there are NO fences. It really boils down to how the SLI works out and if Mr. Bloch deems fences necessary. Otherwise, we are free to bid vacancies across company lines as we see fit. ;)
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Higney, is it confirmed our members will continue to work with 9L/XJ members until the day Bloch issues his award? Or, do we have to be approached by XJ or 9L members and then we decide to meet them? In the meantime until Bloch issues his award, who is meeting whom? Is anything confirmed?
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I've been told "yes" but as of 12:01 last night I am no longer "in the loop" so as far as I know nothing has changed with continued work, but Bloch has the drivers seat for a beginning of May delivery.
 
pilotlight said:
I guess we should all find out in a couple weeks the outcome of the SLI, after that I guess they are going to start moving the aircraft around and by the end of the year colgans name will be gone and all the jets will be on the pinnacle certificate. The aircraft will be fenced initially so the current crews that are on the aircraft will still be flying those aircraft for awhile with their own books and manuals but then eventually everyone will get the same manuals and charts (ipads) I guess there will be vacancies going forward company wide then after that and people can choose where they want to go as vacancies open up? I dont see that part of the merger happening until mid 2012 though. the route network on the CRJ 900 is going to be pretty extensive though, you could be in SFO one day and STX or CZM the next trip.
Anyways, good luck to everyone with this arbitrators decision, I hope it is fair for everyone and i look forward to working with xj,9l in the future.
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Cruise said:
While that "might" happen, per the CBA there are NO fences. It really boils down to how the SLI works out and if Mr. Bloch deems fences necessary. Otherwise, we are free to bid vacancies across company lines as we see fit. ;)
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While fences are not erected, Mesaba still has to be brought over to the Pinnacle way of doing things (checklist, manuals, so on). Until that time the pilot groups on the jet's are not interchangeable even after an SLI. Likely there is something similar on the Saab. Management refers to it as a fence, and have told pilots during classes it's a fence because that's their term for it. You may hear it referred to as a fence, but not quite.
 
I think we are putting "operational fences" and "Seniority/equip fences" together in this thread. Seniority list fences are simply a discussion point for us all, until Bloch makes his final award they are pointless to discuss since they may or may not happen and IF they did more speculation and no facts would ensue.

As far as "operational fences" jynx is exactly correct- just because an a/c moves certs doesn't mean that it is "fair game" for all pilots on the cert. Eventually that will happen post sli AND with the FAA approved transition (training/manuals/checklists/uniforms/etc).

Don't confuse the two.. It will make your head explode.
 
higney85 said:
I think we are putting "operational fences" and "Seniority/equip fences" together in this thread. Seniority list fences are simply a discussion point for us all, until Bloch makes his final award they are pointless to discuss since they may or may not happen and IF they did more speculation and no facts would ensue.

As far as "operational fences" jynx is exactly correct- just because an a/c moves certs doesn't mean that it is "fair game" for all pilots on the cert. Eventually that will happen post sli AND with the FAA approved transition (training/manuals/checklists/uniforms/etc).

Don't confuse the two.. It will make your head explode.
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I imagine since we already operate -900s, though, that likely makes the training/manuals/checklists part of the transition a bit easier.
 
kellwolf said:
I imagine since we already operate -900s, though, that likely makes the training/manuals/checklists part of the transition a bit easier.
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not quite, remember XJ operates -200's too... it's not that we all couldn't just have revisions and some new checklists... It's the FAA approving a plan with methods and execution. The FAA is involved which means it WILL NOT be instantaneous.
 
higney85 said:
not quite, remember XJ operates -200's too... it's not that we all couldn't just have revisions and some new checklists... It's the FAA approving a plan with methods and execution. The FAA is involved which means it WILL NOT be instantaneous.
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Well, if it's the MEM FSDO, they can probably work it out between the 7th and 18th hole at Southwind.....
 
I hope what Higney is saying is true regarding operational fences. The FAA can take their sweet time before they approve any transition plans/checklists/procedures. This is one way to ensure Pinnacle upgrades stick with Pinnacle pilots as long as possible, especially for us 2007 DOHs. ;)
 
higney85 said:
I think we are putting "operational fences" and "Seniority/equip fences" together in this thread. Seniority list fences are simply a discussion point for us all, until Bloch makes his final award they are pointless to discuss since they may or may not happen and IF they did more speculation and no facts would ensue.

As far as "operational fences" jynx is exactly correct- just because an a/c moves certs doesn't mean that it is "fair game" for all pilots on the cert. Eventually that will happen post sli AND with the FAA approved transition (training/manuals/checklists/uniforms/etc).

Don't confuse the two.. It will make your head explode.
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Sorry, guess I wasn't specific enough, because I figured "operational fences" are obvious and wouldn't need explanation...silly me. Clearly until full integration occurs, we're going to continue to operate our own aircraft....ala an operational fence.

So yes, if that's what everyone is talking about, then there will be fences "until" the certificates are merged and we're all trained *the PNCL way.*
 
Cruise said:



Sorry, guess I wasn't specific enough, because I figured "operational fences" are obvious and wouldn't need explanation...silly me. Clearly until full integration occurs, we're going to continue to operate our own aircraft....ala an operational fence.

So yes, if that's what everyone is talking about, then there will be fences "until" the certificates are merged and we're all trained *the PNCL way.*
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It's not just you, many of our managers at HQ call them fences too. Our pilot group gets jumbled up, managers pilots get jumbled up, I just hope some people reading this stuff get the differences laid out so heads don't explode.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
I hope what Higney is saying is true regarding operational fences. The FAA can take their sweet time before they approve any transition plans/checklists/procedures. This is one way to ensure Pinnacle upgrades stick with Pinnacle pilots as long as possible, especially for us 2007 DOHs. ;)
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:banghead:

And Colgan upgrades still with Colgan pilots, especially those 2010 hires?
 
mapui
 
kellwolf said:
:banghead:

And Colgan upgrades still with Colgan pilots, especially those 2010 hires?
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Yeah! They can keep it! Don't you remember the Jet U motto? "Props are for boats!" hahahahahaaaaaa


With these 38 upgrades (I know the prelim award only shows 19 upgrades, but I have a feeling the final will do secondaries to fill in at least 30 upgrades), for me, all it would take is another couple months of 20-25 upgrades/per month. IF that stays up, and IF operational fences can last that long so no XJ/9L pilot can immediately upgrade at 9E, then I may have a chance. Considering we've had a constant stream of 15-25 upgrades every month since last October, if this same stream continues, I may see it in Oct/Nov/Dec this year. I hope the operational fence can keep it Pinnacle-upgrade only for at least a few months. Once I get the upgrade, I could care less then who jumps where. You have to understand, this SLI will really be the deal-breaker. No one knows where the Colgan guys or Mesaba guys will fall. And I better not have a junior Colgan guy go senior to me in a relative integration, and then upgrade into a Pinnacle CRJ. THIS is why I'm hoping for an operational fence to keep our Pinnacle upgrades as Pinnacle only for a time being.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Yeah! They can keep it! Don't you remember the Jet U motto? "Props are for boats!" hahahahahaaaaaa


With these 38 upgrades (I know the prelim award only shows 19 upgrades, but I have a feeling the final will do secondaries to fill in at least 30 upgrades), for me, all it would take is another couple months of 20-25 upgrades/per month. IF that stays up, and IF operational fences can last that long so no XJ/9L pilot can immediately upgrade at 9E, then I may have a chance. Considering we've had a constant stream of 15-25 upgrades every month since last October, if this same stream continues, I may see it in Oct/Nov/Dec this year. I hope the operational fence can keep it Pinnacle-upgrade only for at least a few months. Once I get the upgrade, I could care less then who jumps where. You have to understand, this SLI will really be the deal-breaker. No one knows where the Colgan guys or Mesaba guys will fall. And I better not have a junior Colgan guy go senior to me in a relative integration, and then upgrade into a Pinnacle CRJ. THIS is why I'm hoping for an operational fence to keep our Pinnacle upgrades as Pinnacle only for a time being.
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Nope, I don't think SLI can be a deal breaker, unless you wanna go all Airways on us. The deal is done, just wanting to see the "90 day terms" ;)
 
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